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  • Group logo of SOS–369
    Active 3 years, 2 months ago

    Welcome to the new and improved SOS–369.
    Just completed a really nice live sample play series to show how I won 10 out of 14 bets over two shoes and 8 out of 10 wins on the last shoe.
    Our best system yet–bar non […]

    Private Group / 1 member
  • Group logo of S”0”S private membership support group
    Active 3 years, 2 months ago

    Back in the 90s you couldn’t play S“0”S because of the EVERY HAND RULE.
    But today it is perfectly legal! And with our new progression system which includes making zero bets (hence the name S“0”S) makes it perfec […]

    Private Group / 11 members
  • Group logo of S Bac private membership support group
    Active 3 years, 2 months ago

    S Bac rules for exploit play of S”0”S

    Private Group / 10 members
  • Group logo of MvD Private Members Secret Forum
    Active 6 years, 7 months ago

    Hello MvD Private Member
    We want MvD Private Forum Members to know who stands out in our Private Forum Membership circle…

    This MvD private forum is only accessible to the Private Members whom purchased the M […]

    Private Group / 28 members
  • Group logo of ”The Final Word”
    Active 6 years, 7 months ago

    Hey guys
    Well here’s the final draft area designated for ”The Final Word” manual…

    It will be updated on a regular basis before it goes to print…


    Private Group / 33 members
  • Group logo of Private Member Baccarat Strategies
    Active 6 years, 7 months ago

    Discussion group for advanced baccarat strategies…

    Private Group / 21 members
  • Group logo of 4D
    Active 6 years, 10 months ago

    Advanced technical Baccarat approach to tracking 4 scores through the shoe.

    This will require an acceptable comprehension level of all other approaches before being able to get started with 4D.

    (All NOR […]

    Private Group / 15 members

0 thoughts on “Private Forums

  1. The best promo offer you can give yourself is to live in a spirit with strength not if fear. Once doing so you will see but not with your eyes and it is giving you all the tools to go forward. It is amazing to me what the real issue is people have not being able to have continues success. The 1st thing what comes to mind is the focus upon making money, ignoring their own true quality given by God. Following the path of greed or desperation is causing a disconnect and struggle along the way.

    I guess we need to focus upon our spiritual EV first before we betting our cash in games designed to keep you hoping. Truth is most so called professionals all end up broke. The goal of making money is having some! That means you only truly get it if your spirit is aligned towards the will of God, not making money a goal itselves.

    Focusing upon EV in a way the outcome currently doesn’t matter. Unfortunately most gamble with emotions and never go allin if EV asked for it! Passiveness does never get the prices according natural law!

  2. Hello Rich
    If you exclude my thoughts and input then yes you are the only person making any comments.

    As for why, well that is a question only the Membership could answer.

    This forum is a platform for all to share but no one seems interested so it’s now a silent info site.

    As for Ellis and myself we both chose to become full time players.

    My Bank roll is growing nicely. Been winning pretty much every playing session.

    Hope to get the members contributing more thanks for your input BTW maybe it will spark something?


  3. If you trust those leaders that are achievers in the the areas that you want to achieve in, then does it really matter how you get there?

    In the end you get what you want. And if you trust in yourself that you will not quit then those are the only two things you need to achieve in order to be successful right?

    Success is inevitable…

  4. Just posted a beautiful example of how SBac can even get 6+ units three times after play #35. It’s in the SBac Private Members Group site.

  5. Hi Rich
    Good question and the answer is “no manual” mainly for security issues whereas we have no ability to control our private members security operations or measures on their personal desktop, laptop or mobile smart phones.

    And we found that also since the casinos are constantly evolving their gaming methods and strategies of play in that we also need to constantly update if necessary our measures of attack as well to keep up with the current changes.

    That way all our regular private members can stay apprised of the new circumstances of the game.

    Hope this best answers your query.


  6. It was definitely assuring putting a face to a name as I met up with Dean. We had two 1-to-1 coaching session during his time here in Singapore.

    Dean ensured that I got the fundamental concepts right. He was patient with addressing my queries and also made sure I understood each concept before moving on to the next. Getting a good grasp of S”0”S and S Bac Approach was easier than i thought!

    Feeling enlightened and well equipped with the new rules, approach and triggers. We put these theories into practice. I played zero bets in the beginning as Dean made sure I was ready to make money bets.

    We encountered a tough shoe, and I couldn’t possibly stop loss if it wasn’t for Dean and the new rules and strategies that were in placed. Of course the learning doesn’t stop here. I’ll have to keep practicing to get better!

    I’m really glad to have had the coaching session with Dean! He is a brilliant and remarkable coach! Looking forward to seeing him again!

  7. I had a good 3 days of personal coaching from Dean. Really appreciate that he took his time to travel here and spend time personally with me.

    We started the first day reviewing my understanding of SOS and sbac. This helped me to correct some of my misinterpretation of the rules and play approach of SOS and sbac like money management during play and bankroll mgt.

    After that I watched Dean play a few shoes and how he won applying the rules as well as the approach.

    In the last nite which was on a Friday and one of the toughest nite in my casinos because my casino likes to give tough shoes during the weekend, we encounter the above shoe which had the different SOS and sbac plays. A perfect chance to see SOS and sbac being applied. I stick to my discipline and played to a stop win of 4 in about the first 20 plays. But if we had continued, this would have been a 20 plus win using SOS and sbac flat betting.

    However I told Dean that most shoes will exhibit such nice sequence of SOS and sbac plays. Most shoes will exhibit one or two nice sequence of SOS and sbac plays so I prefer to make my 20 units from playing partial 5 shoes hitting +4 stop wins.

    From now onwards, I am going to be discipline and stick to the rules and play approach of SOS and sbac to build my bankroll.

  8. Hi Bochup
    I will explain in better detail the six systems that most commonly show up with Baccarat on the S”0″S private forum for you to better understand.


  9. Hello Angel
    Yes the price which also includes a S”0”S part one video review of two videos that both Ellis and I shot while in Las Vegas September 2018.

    (Part two of the video review is Only included with SBac which is more in-depth and goes over with two of our private members on how to play SBac our exploit counter to S”0”S)

    The course is 100% online with private access to the S”0”S private support group which includes the rules and sample shoe play threads along with posts of trigger signals along with Players Q&A.

    Here is a link to our current promo:

    Hope this answers your questions.



  10. Guys remember that S”0″S is designed as a navigator approach to pointing out the best of 6 systems to play the current cards of play. Which typically allows 3-5 wins before the Switch Back to another pattern. While SBac (Switch Back) is designed to exploit the switch when it happens before 40 plays into the shoe.

    This then allows you to either recover back to 5+ or keep going if the switch holds.
    But always remember to pull out when things start to go hay wire.

    And never play into a switch after 60 plays into the shoe.

  11. You have to love the Hot Knife …. Its a slow steady cut or build-up of chips ….. Or both…depending on how you look at it …

    The best part is . A person somewhere in the mid-west was banned from a casino . So he took them to court . The casino stated their case against him for being banned …He stated his case against the casino on being biased against winning players . The judge overseeing the whole thing Ruled in favor of the palintiff . The reasons were : Do you ban players who are losing … NO ….. Do you only ban winning players …. YES …… So because of that , the biased was established , and he won his case … The judge stated that the casino can’t ban someone for playing good or has a better unstanding of the game that makes him a better player … And ordered the casino to let him continue playing there …
    Think of the ramifications of this … Eventually no more banning by any casino . Vegas or anywhere in the U.S.
    This all happened about 2 months ago … Its a Beautiful thing ….

  12. I met Ellis & Dean in Vegas and had a great time. We played SOS & SBac and found both systems are conservative and work well in the casino. I feel we can win especially with the zero bet and waiting until we see a a favorable bet in the shoe. I would highly recommend both systems. We all know with the designer shoes it is very hard to win in the casino. Ellis & Dean spent a lot of time explaining everything. I found Ellis & Dean to be great guys and the negative comments I heard have no merit. I also heard something about Leonard Benson and as a long time client he has systems that never worked. He has nothing to do with SOS or SBac.


  13. Re: Other newer players feedback of S”0”S or S Bac, Well that would be up to them, but just for the record we have had zero complaints about the effectiveness of S”0”S from all of our S”0”S Private Membership since it’s inception date going back to April 1st, 2018.

    Which pretty much speaks for itself on the Navigator Game approach S”0”S & S Bac go by.

    But that’s fine you can do your own math and calculate which is better?

    1) To wait and see based on other players success with S”0”S & S Bac.
    2) Get in the game now and see for yourself fist hand.

    Either way there is a cost to you of either potential winnings you could be earning at the tables now or tha actual cost of S”0”S and S Bac plus net earnings you could start winnng straight away…

    Your choice my friends?
    But I have to ask WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR???

  14. Guys, I was just kidding back there when I talked about changing the name to SS or whatever. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. No, the S0S S Bac Approach is working perfectly just as is. We don’t dare change anything!

  15. My On Line play at Bet Phoenix:

    We are playing hand shuffled cards only so we are sticking to NOR.

    We started with a buy in of $100 3 days ago..

    So following my tiering system of money management, we started with nickels until we got to $200.

    Then we went to dimes. We just broke $700 early this morning.

    Following my tiering system, we should have gone to quarters when we hit $500 yesterday.

    But here’s the thing: Betting dimes we only need to average 7 units per day to make $1000 each per month! Sounds crazy but do the math. We are WAY ahead of schedule.

    Why go to quarters and chance getting banned???

    Me against hand shuffled cards = no contest!

    Our goal is $1000 each per month.

  16. Trip Report – Dean – by Ellis

    Dean played 15 shoes. If he lost any at all, it was only by a unit or 2.

    He ended up at +70 units ! Very close to a 100% shoe win rate !

    Dean is a hit and run player with an extremely high hit rate !

    He played more shoes than me because he often quit at +5. Then went to another table. He only went more than +5 when he hit +5 real quick. Then he’d start over and go for another +5 at the same table. But he captured his first +5.

    Dean has his S”0″S and S Bac approach down pat including his O/R count and split SAP counts. These are his navigators to land on the right system for the shoe at hand. Any trouble is dispelled by his 0 bets.

    BUT also, his tote board reading usually already tells him the right system.

    He has developed a simpler but accurate process of system selection.

    Hey, I watched it work for 4 days.

    I would call it a Baccarat breakthrough!

    Dean worked very long and hard to come up with what I would call The Navigator Approach – Simplified System Selection.

    S”0”S for Simplified “0” System Selection!

    You know, when you think about it, everybody knows what they SHOULD have played after the shoe is over. Sorry, too late! You need to know BEFORE you make your first bet. Nobody should ever bet W/O a reason. Those guys are Gamblers – not Players. As PLAYERS, We only bet Money when we have good reason and KNOW what system to play. That takes at least 7 to 10 plays.


    That is why we have the “0” bet. You tend to be betting real money in the good sections while betting a bunch of zeros in the bad sections. Get it?

    Dean has got S”0”S and S Bac down to a Science.

    Hmm? We call it Simplified “0” System Selection !

    I watched this work virtually PERFECTLY for 4 days and nights.

    Guy, we’ve got to give credit where credit is due.

    3 CHEERS for Dean!

  17. Sounds Great! Been winning a lot with S”0″S and all it’s new and improved add ons. But S Bac makes total sense to me as a perfect switch back system or companion game approach to all shoe types out there in the casinos.

  18. TRIP REPORT – Vegas – Ellis

    Well, that last note, I was referring only to the high stakes room – where I normally play. But…

    All’s well that ends well. I made ONE tragic mistake – I played the high stakes room first – 2 shoes – both highly fixed and impossible to play. That was early the first day. No tables open on the floor. That was the only play I saw in the high stakes room the entire 4 day trip. Even the locals avoided the high stakes room like the plague even at night when the floor was crowded. That’s a pretty blatant clue – but the first early morning – when I prefer to play – I didn’t know that YET.

    That was my only mistake. I won every shoe on the floor playing S0S. Strangely there were no Strong Side SBac shoes. But I did switch to OTB4L in a very high 2s situation and hit a 13 play TT run – BB PP BB PP BB PP. I also hit an 11 play ZZ run and a couple 9 and 10 play straight runs. I was ON all of them from the beginning just following the S0S rules.

    There were some heavy hitting local Gamblers playing the floor – players you normally see in the high stakes room – sticking to floor play. I wish I had known that the first morning. So I played 12 shoes and won 10. The 2 I lost – both in the high stakes room.

    But the floor – virtually every tote board – every table was ideal S0S the entire 4 days. Ideal S0S is easy to spot. I’ll draw out what we consider an ideal S0S tote board for you on the Private S0S forum. I only switched to OTB4L ONCE the entire trip and just in time to hit that 13 play TT run.

    We did a LOT of walk throughs like on the way to a restaurant or the pool and every single time we ended up saying to each other “S0S – definitely S0S – every table!” That’s the way it was! All’s well that ends well!

    Meanwhile, one of our players took me up on my offer to play shoes for them on line. We played 2 shoes so far and have another scheduled for today at Bet Phoenix. +15 and +10. Not bad for 6 deck hand shuffled Baccarat! We split 50/50!

  19. Here we are in Las Vegas again!. The shoes I’m seeing here now are absolutely the worst shoes I’ve ever seen in my life!

    No rhyme or reason whatsoever – no consistency. I haven’t seen a single winning player – except us. The shoes are totally misleading.

    Repeat bettors, Opposite bettors, Bank players, Player players, TB4L players, all losing at a tragic pace. Follow The Shoe players getting killed!

    But S0S/S Bac relies on none of those things, It does its own thing.

    It is made for the Designer shoes we see today and finds its own way W/O getting into any bets higher than 2.

    Or if you prefer – no higher than 1. Most shoes, my highest bet is 1, a very comfortable way to play.

    I’m actually the most comfortable when we find ourselves betting against the whole table. We are nearly always right!

    Try it – you’ll like it!.

  20. Here we are in Las Vegas again!. The shoes I’m seeing here now are absolutely the worst shoes I’ve ever seen in my life!

    No rhyme or reason whatsoever – no consistency. I haven’t seen a single winning player – except us. The shoes are totally misleading.

    Repeat bettors, Opposite bettors, Bank players, Player players, TB4L players, all losing at a tragic pace. Follow The Shoe players getting killed!

    But S0S/S Bac relies on none of those things, It does its own thing.

    It is made for the Designer shoes we see today and finds its own way W/O getting into any bets higher than 2.

    Or if you prefer – no higher than 1. Most shoes, my highest bet is 1, a very comfortable way to play.

    I’m actually the most comfortable when we find ourselves betting against the whole table. We are nearly always right!

    Try it – you’ll like it!.

  21. I realize that it is short notice for this seminar but we both had personal reasons for this schedule – couldn’t be helped.

    I have a very good record at these training seminars. Attendees are always complementing me and asking for more training seminars. Many players get it better in a class room setting.

    But the main attraction at these seminars is the play session afterwards. Attendees can either watch or play along side. I can’t guarantee anything but I have done hundreds of these seminar play sessions and Never lost.

    The last Vegas seminar we did the table takedown at Flamingo. Six of us ran the dealer out of chips in just 2 shoes. Can lightening strike twice? I’m sure going to give it my best effort.

  22. Hi Rich
    Just so you know we have quite a few 4+ winning shoe samples already posted in the S Bac Private Support Group Forum. BTW S Bac stands for Switch Bac which is the perfect solution to those Opposites vs Repeats shoe suddenly switching to Player vs Banker shoes.
    When I played that 28+ shoe i did get over 25+ just flatbeting only using a 1,2,0 prog towards the end play. I just replaced the zero bet with a 3 unit bet because at play 27 the shoe was strongly indicating an exploit opportunity.

  23. I understand, but its tough to pony up that kinda money based on 1 post in the public forum, or do we have to go on faith ? I dont understand 28+ wins flatbetting…but you have a 3 unit progression? I realize you want everyone to be a private member for the answers but thats not realistic.

  24. HI Rich
    Thanks for your input and comment but your answer was already posted July 19th, on this public forum: “S Bac is our perfect exploit option for S“0”S.

    It’s been tested in live casino play and scored 28+ wins flat betting with the highest progression of 3 units and seems to follow the switch from side to side without any hiccups effortlessly and even on the most difficult shoes played it still wins hands down between 5-10 units.

    We’ve posted both the actual 28+ tote board and the shoe play in the new S Bac support group for private members only”

  25. I would attend a seminar if we get 10 people. I am not available the weekend of September 15th/16th. I would prefer Las Vegas but I can travel too. Thank you.

  26. The next Baccarat hand is either an Opposite or a Repeat. The odds are 50/50. Nevertheless, the average untrained Bac player loses 57% of his hands.

    So the first order of business is to get you up to a 50% hands won rate – the table odds. That’s the easy part.

    From there, every Baccarat shoe ever dealt favors either Opposites or Repeats or Player or Bank. The idea is to get you playing WITH the shoe rather than AGAINST it as most players do.

    S0S likes those shoes that favor either Opposites or Repeats.

    S Bac likes those shoes that favor either Player or Bank.

    Either way, we’ve got you covered.

    Study and Practice! Study and Practice! Study and Practice!

    Oh, and in case I forgot to mention it:

    Study and Practice!

  27. Since the ’80s I have conducted hundreds of seminars in major casino cities throughout the U.S., Canada and even The Bahamas. Each seminar was followed by a casino play session. Attendees were invited to either watch or play along side me. I never lost a single one of those play sessions.

    Perhaps the most notorious was a 4 day Team BJ seminar at one of the best beach resorts in Nassau. I taught Team BJ the mornings of days 2 3 4 and 5. We spent those afternoons on the beach and played a casino session each of the 4 nights. Each attendee was assigned to one of 8 BJ teams. After the 4th play session we split our winnings evenly among all 43 attendees. Each received more than enough to pay for his or her seminar, air fare, room and meals. We spent the last 2 days on the beach. Everyone left with more money than they came with.

    After my last Vegas seminar at the Marriott, six of us selected a Bac table at the Flamingo. Within two shoes the dealer was out of chips and had to close the table and wait for a refill.

    Hey, let’s play!

  28. I’ve played S”0″S many, many times. It is the most conservative system on the planet. Its ABS (Average Bet Size) is actually less than 1 unit. Your highest bet ever is 2 and, if you prefer, you can make that a 1 bet. Likewise, you can flat bet S BAC if you prefer.

    S”0″S has an Opposite vs Repeat Basis while S Bac has a Player vs Bank basis. When you team two systems together you want them to have different basis so that each are strong where the other is weak.

    I have often said, “The game is not about how much you bet. It is about how often you bet the right side.” Both S”0″S and S Bac concentrate on betting on the right side – the Strong Side of the moment.

    Keeping your bets low has a huge advantage. You can increase your unit much faster. In fact we will give you an optimum schedule for knowing when best to increase your unit.

    My friend Norm bet 2 Hi and followed this same unit increase schedule. Norm was one of my best students. Starting at $10 units Norm followed this same unit increase schedule and won 2 million dollars in 2 years.

    Anyone who puts their mind to it and plays with discipline can do the same thing. We give you the tools, answer all your questions and give you all the help you need. The rest is up to you.

    S0S / S BAC players: please post your casino experiences here. New guys prefer hearing from you rather than Dean and me.

  29. New Switch back rule update:
    THs new rule update makes it easy for the player to know when to make the switch back and has been posted onto the S Bac rules as an update:

    Tried S Bac at 1st bet then quickly switched to S”0”S and went from -5 to 5+

    Posted both the S”0″S winning shoe and tote board on the Private Support Group for S Bac sample shoes

    CFC B-) .

  30. Every system there is has its strengths and weaknesses. When we play two systems in companion we want two systems that compliment each other.
    SOS and SBac make perfect companions. One is strong where the other is weak. Dean’s idea of making these two systems companions is an excellent idea. Then proving it in the casino…..

  31. S “0” S is a strong system in its own right …… But seeing “S” Bac and playing it out on some newer old shoes , (past 2 weeks ). It is very easy to follow . You really don’t need a SAP count ,(good to have anyway) or a O/R count for that matter …. When you Read the directions or Rules for the switches involved , it’s like a hot knife cutting into cold butter …. I like the results and will be less stressful when playing at table speed …… Max..

  32. There are no leprechauns.
    Elvis is dead.
    There is no such thing as luck.
    “Luck” is just a word invented by humans to explain coincidence.
    There is no magical force in nature controlling winning vs losing.

    But there is truth to this statement:

    “The more I study and practice, the luckier I get!”

    Consistent casino winners have ONE thing in common:


    Winning vs losing is decided by one thing and one thing only – SKILL.
    That is what I teach.

    Follow other players? Why? More than 99% lose.

    Guess? Guessers lose 57% of their hands on average. The casinos see to that. This in spite of the fact that the table odds are 50/50. The next hand is either an Opposite or a Repeat. The odds are 50/50. Only skill gets you above a 50% win rate – the very object of the game.

    Which side won the most of the last 5 hands is history. The question is: which side will win most of the NEXT 5 hands? THAT is where the money is!

    There is a very accurate, very obvious trigger that tells you. It is plain as day but not something you would think is meaningful. Why it is so meaningful is very mathematical. You don’t need to understand the math – you just need to know the trigger. That trigger is the secret to beating Baccarat.

    Every shoe has an optimum way of betting that shoe. Some we need to play safe. Others we need to Exploit.

    Once we’ve got you taking full advantage of the trigger, we’ll teach you the best ways to bet the shoe at hand. Some shoes are 4 to 6 unit shoes. Other shoes are 30 to 70 unit shoes. You need to know the difference.

    From there it becomes a question of when to safely increase your unit. There is an optimum schedule – a safe schedule. I have had students safely, gradually, raise their unit from $5 to $5000 deploying this schedule.

    Now you are playing the game!

  33. Great news!
    Played S Bac over 3 shoes this past weekend and all three shoes produced 3 completely different results, yet S Bac just chewed them all up to a minimum win rate of 10+ and that was all done just flat betting..

    The PA (Player Advantage) was a whopping 90% on average for all three!
    That’s winning virtually 9 out of 10 hands in a row.

    i’ve posted the shoes on the S Bac Private Support Group under ” S Bac sample shoes” with actual tote boards.
    Check it out if you are already a S Bac private member and if your not then what are you waiting for?

    Great winnings to all,
    CFC B-)

  34. Dean and I figured this out together. Dean is playing the shoes in the casino. Then we are going over them together.

    We can define the SS (the Strong Side) as the side that is winning the most bets at the moment

    If we could manage to stay on the SS and switch sides correctly as the SS changes sides throughout the shoe we would win at Baccarat rather easily. The best I’ve ever been able to do is stay on the side that WAS the Strong Side. Until NOW!

    The side that was the Strong Side is not the best indicator. There is a much better trigger no one ever thought of that anticipates the SS for the upcoming plays and tends to switch sides in advance to always be on the Strong Side.

    While this SOUNDS complex, it is, in fact, extremely simple. You can even get to the point you can play S BAC W/O a score card.

    If you anticipate the SS correctly you win more bets that you lose – and that is the entire object of Baccarat.

    Also, if you are the nervous type, you can flat bet at 2 units and pretty much keep up with a progression bettor basing at 1 unit. That way, you avoid those gut wrenching high bets altogether. And you avoid entrapments.

    Or, quite often we get shoes where one side is SIGNIFICANTLY stronger than the other. For those shoes, which come up more than you would think, we will teach you a safe way to Exploit.

    For instance that +28 casino shoe CFC mentioned, he did NOT Exploit! He simply bet a 123 progression. Had he Exploited, he would have SAFELY scored about +70.

    “I was doing fine, Ellis, but then the bias changed!”

    Another plus I like about S Bac is it does not depend on biases whatsoever. The casino can fix the shoe any way they like. S BAC is immune to shoe fixing.

    And, the price is right!

  35. Today I played a Perfect S”0”S to a 6+ shoe win with 100% PA (Player Advantage) not a single losing bet just a 3+ unit win with three single 1+ unit bets for a total of 6+….I have added some foot notes to improve accuracy in the shoe posting as stated below:

    I didn’t make my 1st 3 unit bet until I won 2 hands in a row on paper first…

    Try it for yourselves and let me know:
    I have added some foot notes to improve accuracy in the shoe posting as stated below:

    I’ve posted the winning shoe on the S”0″S Private Membership Group…

  36. Played two shoes tonight and both were played opposites which produced 8+ and 5+ results.
    Posted the winning shoes on the S”0″S Private Support Group for our Private members to view.

  37. Played 4 shoes yesterday and only lost one shoe but still won 19+ total playing S“0”S properly.
    It’s really nice to play a stress free game of Baccarat without ever going higher than a 2 bet on my progressions…

    Players Averages: Very Strong!

    Shoe #1 = 60%

    Shoe #2 = 75%

    Shoe #3 = 33%

    Shoe #4 = 83%

    Just posted all 4 shoes in the S“0”S private support group.


  38. Our S”0″S APPROACH PROTECTS you from change ups.

    Card #1 Started at play #22 and played it Repeats but as Murphy’s Law dictates “”whatever can go wrong, will go wrong.”

    The shoe started jumping and my timing was off so as you can see I had to play a very tight patient game of cat and mouse with the casino which eventually paid off with a 4+ win. And still earned a 50% PA (Players Average), far exceeding the norm of 26%….

    Card #2 Started at play #8 and played it Opposites and never looked back:
    The shoe started jumping and my timing was perfect so as you can see the jump game paid off with a 8+ win (7 bets = 7 winning bets). And earned a 100% PA (Players Average), set a record against the norm of 26%….


    Just posted the winning shoes on:
    S”0″S support group for Private Members…

  39. Well had my 1st losing day -8 units.
    Should have played SSB not player..
    When SS works it’s usually the best way to play any shoe.
    Just posted the shoe on:
    S”0″S support group for Private Members…

  40. Played S”0”S even though I lost 3 hands iar right off the bat and incurred 3 Dragons iar, thst I didn’t win on because the bets pushed.

    I still ended up winning the shoe in under 36 hands of play.thats still over 52% PA (Player Average)…
    Any PA above 26% is considered pro level.

    I’ve posted the actual shoe in the Supprt Group for our Private Membership Sample shoe thread.


  41. Just got back from Bangkok, Thailand – Poipet, Cambodia

      Thought I’d share this blog about the 17 easy steps. I found it very helpful.
      I did get charged 2,600 baht to re-enter Thailand and not the quoted 1,200 baht, but I think the Cambodian Police officer who claimed he was helping me, was in fact gouging me for the extra 1,400 baht, hence the total 2,600 baht total paid.

      Still I felt safer being scammed by the Cambodian Police rather than following some strange guy who kept insisting that he too was helping me and that I should follow him. (No Way!) Red Flags every where so I went with the Devil I know versus the one I don’t.

      P.S. I have not had a single losing day since I’ve been back. that’s a perfect 115 days in a row winning streak just simply playing S“0”S that was created and developed through a great deal of trial and error here at Casino Forum Club.

      Give it a try and see for yourselves “Seeing is believing” especially if it is with your own eyes and hard earned money (which are CFC winnings)…

      Now I’ve personally proven that S“0”S is not just a flash in the pan, local phenomenon.
      I’ve personally been building a nice little bankroll from starting with reds and then greens and now blacks!!! That’s right Blacks ($100 chip value) So 3-7 units per day just simply playing S“0”S the CFC way is quite a great day now.

      The learning is over and now it’s time to lean over to Earning!
      Good Winnings to you all,


  42. Here’s what we take from the underlying premise of joining Casino Forum Club as Private Members.

    1. Everyone is, or can be, expert in something. Or

    2. Many of us can make things, or have ideas for a small skill we could learn.

    Given those two insights, the question is whether that thing, skill or expertise level is valuable enough that some group of people will pay you for it. If so, how do you get started? And how do you acquire that expertise at a cost to you of less than what you get paid for it?

  43. More News…
    Seems that this method that Norm has left behind was being kept under wraps with tight lock & key for a very good reason.

    I’ve already played S”0″S over the last two weeks of live casino testing Norms method along as a companion game which is what i do best, and Literally dominated every shoe played never losing.

    And Usually winning 4 winning hands to 1 losing hand before breaking.

    The success has phenomenal to say the least.
    We can easily get everyone going on this just join our Private Membership and your in.


  44. Thankyou John
    This site believes in supporting the players and giving credit where credit is due and lord knows Norm was the real deal.

    And when you are ready we’ll be happy to share your Baccarat success with others as well. This forum is dedicated to both our PROS and the Many Great Players, we welcome all.

    CFC :good:

  45. Excellent post. In another forum they will discuss everything except NORM way and some members keep it to themselves.

  46. Looks like S“0”S is debunking it’s critics based on the positive feedback we are getting from our Private Members playing it.

    It makes me happy that others are achieving the same great results that I am getting as well.

    It’s a beautiful way to just cruise through a shoe without running the risk of a potential storm.

    Glad to here from all of you whom are sharing their positive gains with us and hope to hear more down the road. And feel free to post your comments as well.


  47. Well Guys
    After the convincing success of playing S”0”S both on this Forum and the live Casinos.

    I played a perfect S”0”S shoe today and made 12 units in bets and ended up 5+!

    That’s A Player Advantage of 5 units won divided by 12 units bet which = 42%

    Need I say more?

  48. There are two types of answers you get when you ask what time is it:

    One person will tell you what time it is while the other will tell you how to build a watch.

    We can teach you both ways, so it’s time for you to learn this game and graduate from learning to earning!

    Let’s turn your hard earned Sweat Equity into more money which equates to Sweet Equity…


  49. Hi CFC . Have been looking over my casino shoes and have had very positive results with this system . Even when playing NOR the 0-1-2-0 works well in the long run . So yes . I give it a big Thumbs Up .

    I don’t understand the cherry picking part . Anyone who sits at any kind of a gambling table has already subconsciously Picked their table … They just don’t know it …

    Love the low 2’s and the low 1’s when they happen …. It’s like a wet dream come true … LOL…….

    Max ……. .

  50. Just finished another 2 successful days of winning 5-10+ units per shoe over 3 shoes played.
    Very high Player Advantage up to 40% +….

    But I would rather be winning our Members shoes just to see how S”0″S fares.
    Will post all four shoes in short code on the S”0″S Private Membership Group Sample shoes area.


  51. Won every shoe today at a record breaking 26% PA minimum up to as high as 100%. (Player Advantage = money won / money bet) now that’s gotta be convincing…

    CFC B-)

  52. Hi Brian
    That’s a great question which makes me think of a fair trade.
    You can send me a shoe that maybe you had some difficulty playing and I will play it out and report the results back onto this thread (But no details of play) if you like or in a private email.

    And if you then feel confident enough to want to learn our S”0″S and make a purchase, I will reveal to you how I played your shoe step by step and also get you into our S”0″S Private Group forum so that you can see other sample shoes and rules to better understand our method.

    What do you think?

  53. Just posted two sample shoes in the SYS “0” aka: S”0″S Private Membership Group:
    One shoe switches three times so we had to deploy our stop win rule for a low score but the next shoe was better and switched only twice and we ended up scoring 18+ units betting mostly 1 unit bets in 20 plays (not including “0” bets). That’s a whopping 90% Players average.

    The more I play SYS “0” aka: S”0″S the more confidence I have with it as Casino Forum’s best overall winning strategy with lowest amount risked.

    CFC B-)

  54. For all you Baccarat Aficionados:
    Actually played a very good shoe today at the most popular Baccarat Casino in my area with SYS “0” and I won the 4 out of 5 first hands on paper then decided to bet real money and took it to 10+ hands winning 5 in a row. Netted 5+ But never bet more than a 2 bet progression.

    If I played the exploit progression I would have won 15+ with the exploit progression over all.
    Not bad eh?

    I actually bet real money on only 6 bets and won 4 out of six hands played back to back the two plays that lost were zero bets BTW so it was a perfect score.

    I’ve consistently won every playing day for over 4 months now.
    Have been posting other players shoes in the SYS “0” Private Members Group and will start posting my winning shoes as well.

    I think we got the Tiger by the tail here guys.

  55. Yes Brian
    We have all the results posted in detail on the Private Group Forum but that is for Sys “0” private members to access.

    Shoe scores won’t help you better determine the validity of Sys “0” but all we can say in the Public domain is that this is our least aggressive progression system with the most hit rate.

    Everyone plays different levels of base units and we also teach how to exploit certain shoe opportunities as well.

    Sys “0” makes winning a whole lot easier.


  56. Hello
    Yes it must come as a surprise that Ellis has chosen to go off on his own but we do wish him well.

    Regards your concerns about Casino Forum you need not worry because Ellis never ran the site other than being a moderator.

    The site has been running since 2015 and will continue to be a viable entity for all Baccarat aficionados and S“0”S now will be available as well.

    It was going to be marketed separately from System One but we chose to combine both System One into System “0” for $500.00 for all New Members as a stand alone Product.

    It’s up to you which direction you want to go with and we respect that.

    Just let us know or you can read up more on S“0”S now on our Products Tab.


  57. I would like to hear from the beta testers of this new system. Has anyone used Sys 0 in the heat of the battle yet? Let’s hear about actual results.

  58. Sys ”0” announcement
    All Private Members do not have to pay for access to Sys “0”.

    So that means you get it for free because you are already a Private Member in good standing.

    $500 is for new members only.

    Hope this answers your question?

    CFC B-)

  59. And here is how Ellis gets the money!

    First and foremost, after walking into any casino, it is imperative for a Pro to win his first shoe. I want to be playing their money as soon as possible – like Within my first few bets.

    Therefore I do a careful tote board search studying every tote board in the casino. BTW, I never play casinos that only have one table.

    From my home in AR the closest casinos are Tunica, MS. So I frequently play Goldstrike / Horseshoe. The two casinos are connected. So I always have at least 4 tables to choose from. On weekends, usually 6 or 8 but I don’t play on weekends.

    Why not? Casinos make most of their money on weekends. So they have their sharpest, quickest reacting personnel on weekend shifts. Tues, Wed, Thurs you are up against slower reacting dullards. That is when the full time Pros play. I stopped playing weekends way back in 1988. I kept complete, dated daily records. 3 years of records indicated I did best on Tues, Wed and Thurs. Also, playing every day makes YOU a dullard too. And, when you are only playing 3 days a week you can get more shoes in per day. I often played as many as 20 shoes per day. My goal is +20 but if I hit 20 before play 40, I go for +30.

    But the proof was: Once I cut down to 3 days a week I went 3 years W/O a single losing day. Ha, but the casinos noticed that too. I was the most notorious player in Atlantic City. My 8×10 glossy was posted in EVERY dealer coffee room in A.C. Probably still is. I sat down at one table and the dealer immediately burst into tears. Good grief! But after 3 years W/O a losing day the boss of The Claridge called me into his office and barred me from every Casino in A.C.

    Not to worry! They don’t bar winning Bac players these days.

    So I moved my play to Vegas. Got barred everywhere within 3 years. The Flamingo records show that I have not had a losing day in any of their 40 casinos in the last 20 years. Actually my winning streak was much longer than that but their records only go back 20 years.

    So a few years ago I went back to A.C. after not being there for 15 years.

    I had a guy with me who ran an internet site that was trying to prove me a phony. And trying to prove I never got barred from A.C.

    We walked into a casino from the boardwalk.. I saw nothing I liked on the floor so we walked into their empty high stakes room. Empty except for one Bac dealer.

    Before we got sat down the Pit Boss walked over and said to me, “Hi Ellis – Do you still live in Saratoga?” “No, I moved to Arkansas.” “Well I’ll let you play since my pit is empty and you’ll probably draw more players.” I couldn’t believe it – not after 15 years. He even remembered where I lived!

    So we started a new shoe. I won six shoes in a row to a 26% avg Player Advantage. I’m sure that is a world record for 6 shoes. My “friend” posted the whole thing on his forum and also that he won $1500 back betting on me. He changed his tune about me and said I was a gifted player. Can’t remember his name or his site but somebody here will remember. I’m sure his posts are still up. But enough for war stories – back to casing the joint.

    What am I looking for on the tote boards? FIRST, high streak! Because those are the easiest tables to beat AND the highest scoring.

    If I don’t find any I look for the choppiest table. There is nearly always one or the other.

    But if not, next I look for high 2s. I’m looking for a good OTB4L table – good enough to bet The Plow – Basing at 2, bet U1D2 (Up 1 when you lose and down 2 when you win except don’t go below 2).

    See, your object when betting a progression is to get back to your base bet. When you go down 2 on a win you get back to your base bet twice as fast as you got away from it.

    Why The Plow? Because basing at 2, while more aggressive, is MUCH safer than basing at 1. The plow is safer because your rate of increase or your “slope” of increase is only half as much. Or, just take my word for it.

    I might start with a 1 bet but as soon as I see I’m winning more bets than I’m losing, I go to The Plow. If I’m losing more bets than I’m winning I get the hell out of there quickly and never go back to that table that day.

    Why do we call it The Plow? Because it plows through very nearly all adversity.

    Ellis, do you ever flat bet?

    No, while it has it’s advantages here is the bottom line as far as I’m concerned:

    “Any shoe you win flat betting you win much more with a progression.”

    Therefore, flat betting is only best when you lose. I don’t go there to lose!

    But if you are just learning, I recommend flat betting until you develop some casino savvy – which you will at CFC.

    Do you skip bets?

    No, I play EVERY hand once I start. I’m looking to get out of there with +20 or often +30. BUT, if the shoe is not cooperating – say I’m +10 at hand 54, I’m gone and I never go back to that table. Hey, +10 isn’t so bad. A flat bettor will never hit it!

    A group of 6 players at BTC recommends Flat Betting???

    Right! Like I said, if you are just learning, flat bet!

  60. Hi Aegis 21 ! Good to have you aboard again. Yep, we had a lot of great play sessions together both BJ and Bac. I started with BJ. Never played Bac until it’s inception in the U.S in 1986. You know, BJ is literally a thousand times more complex than Bac.

    In BJ first and most important you have to know when to play, which table to play – then which seat to pick and how to best play that seat. You have to have memorized the 500 plays of Basic Strategy as well as when to play Basic and when not to and how to deviate – when to hit and when to stand, when to split and when to double down and when to insure. You can’t flat bet in BJ because you very seldom win most of the hands. You need to know what progression best suits the game at hand. This is all far over the heads of most players. Every decision you make changes the rest of the shoe entirely. So any mistake you make effects the whole table.

    Baccarat, it doesn’t matter whatsoever when you play or where you sit as long as you pick the best table from the tote board. Every play is either an Opposite or a Repeat. The random odds are exactly 50/50 and the payout is basically 1 to 1. Nothing you do effects the game in any way. Much simpler and much friendlier. It is basically the same as flipping a coin.

    Virtually every shoe has a beatable bias. Therefore nearly every shoe is beatable but you always want to play the table with the strongest bias because that makes it the most beatable. So you must know how to detect the strongest bias from the tote boards and then how to play that bias and what to do if the bias changes. You must know how to avoid the sucker bets the casino teases you with. And you must know Cash Mgt.

    In spite of the fact that Baccarat is a 50/50 game, it is incredible to me that the avg player loses 57% of his bets. Why? Because like everyone else in the casino, he’s trying to teach himself or learn from the other players who are also losing.

    If you want to win at Baccarat you need to learn from a successful Pro who can also teach. You couldn’t teach yourself in three lifetimes.

    How much does it cost? A whole lot less than losing!

  61. I think this is a great way to play when you’re learning how to play here. You shouldn’t need more than 12 unit bankroll to shoot for the goal of winning 5 units in the 1st hour. I find that it helps me to relax because I’m not under such great pressure the 1st hour, being that 5 units is normally quite doable with Ellis’ systems when you’re starting out. Once I win that first +5, it’s so much easier to continue and usually I’ll win a lot more in the next hour of play, just like CFC is saying!



  62. Hi All,
    I have been a student of Ellis on both Blackjack and Baccarat over the years and he has been the ultimate instructor and mentor these games have ever seen. Not only does he know all the statistics, the normal casino edge but also the real casino edge. From casinos using two deck BJ to eight deck blackjack and every shuffle employed, manual or machine, to help increase the casino take on every bet. He is an instructor who not only teaches but also plays right along side you. He puts his money on the table and proves his teachings with real life play.
    I met Ellis back in 1990 at a Jerry Paterson Blackjack target session in Atlantic City NJ, with Ellis being a guest speaker. He was giving a New Blackjack seminar and after his explaination of casino tactics, he invited the entire class to join him at Trumps’ Taj Mahal for a live demonstration of his New Blacjack system. NBJ he called it and wow did he ever have a public in casino real world demo. This was the first person I ever saw who not only made sense in the classroom but put it to practice in the field so to speak. He proceeded to win pile after pile of black chips and then when he hit the ten grand mark he colored in and went for dinner. This was done in front of twenty plus seminar attendees. Well enough reminiscing for now.

  63. Do I HAVE to bet a progression?

    No, many of our players flat bet. It has its advantages.
    You can bet a larger unit – usually twice what a progression bettor bases with. And you can increase your unit about twice as fast as a progression bettor.

    But you can’t Exploit flat betting.

    Can’t I raise my unit in a good shoe?

    Sure, but then you are not flat betting, are you.

  64. How much can you win?

    I’m not happy with less than 20 units in a shoe. I’ve hit +20 in 20 shoes in a row literally hundreds of times.

    But every now and then we get what we call an Exploit shoe. We will teach you how to recognize them and how to bet them. 50, 80, even 100 units is not uncommon in Exploit shoes. I see it as our duty to Exploit when opportunity presents itself.

    But whether playing regular or Exploiting we are nearly always the most conservative bettors at the table, very seldom betting more than 5 and never more than 6 even when Exploiting. But even though we are usually the lowest bettors at the table, we most often end up the biggest winners.

    Baccarat isn’t about how much you bet. It is about how often you bet the right side. And in that, we excel!

  65. You are a direct product of your environment
    “It’s better to hang out with people better than you. Pick out associates whose behavior is better than yours and you’ll drift in that direction.” – Warren Buffett It’s been said that you are the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with. In other words, who you spend time with influences the person you become. If someone is a negative influence on you, then consider severely limiting the energy you spend on them. This can be very hard when it’s a family member or co-worker, but if you want to become the best version of you, ensure you are surrounding yourself with people who help you improve yourself. Have a successful week ! B-) :good: :bye:

  66. Well there is ONE thing you can accomplish overnight!

    The overall average hands won rate in baccarat is 43% or less. This is computed from the published casino’s Baccarat table take rate.

    But there is a perfectly legal way of playing the game that immediately increases your hands won rate from 43% average to exactly 50%. This is a huge but certain improvement ANYONE can do overnight. It is the best kept secret in Baccarat!

    This is your first step to becoming a Winning Baccarat Player rather than a mere gambler. And it is the first Baccarat secret we teach you.
    So overnight we can drastically cut your losses!

    Skill takes over from there. The skills we teach you improve your hands won rate to above 50%. How much above? That depends on your dedication. My own hands won rate over the last 30 years is 57%. And I teach you EVERTHING I know. From there I coach you and perfect your play. So do the other members, many of whom have played with me.

    The game is not about how much you bet. It is about how often you bet the right side. Your “Hit Rate”. How much you bet automatically becomes a function of your improving Hit Rate.

    My job is to teach you and coach you. Your duty is to learn more and more.

    How much can you learn? There is no limit.

    How much can you win? There is no limit.

  67. Re silver bullet: Always keep reds in stacks of 5. Always keep greens in stacks of 12. Always keep blacks in stacks of 10. Always keep your starting stack separate from your winning stacks. Get rid of your reds and pinks and whites. Bet the reds and pinks, ha, not at the same time. The whites are waitress tips BUT, NO alcohol! That comes later. I remember those days well – a long time ago. But Always know exactly how much money you have on the table. You see gamblers with a mound of chips on the table – they have no idea how much. But WE are not gamblers – WE are PLAYERS!

    I still recall one fateful night in Atlantic City MANY years ago. Can’t remember which casino it was but I found myself at 3rd base in a hot BJ game! I had my starting stack of ten blacks then a space and then up and down as the shoes wore on until I finally finished ten piles of ten or so I thought. I colored up. The dealer gave me ten $1000 chips – not 11.
    I looked at the dealer perplexed. He said: ” your winning stacks were stacks of 9, not ten!” I realized he was right. My starting pile was 10 and then about a 2 finger width space and then ten stacks of what I thought were ten all touching each other. I did not realize that my ten stacks were one chip less than my starting stack. I should have stayed in the game for another two or three shoes.

    I learned my lesson the hard way. To this day I ALWAYS check my piles of ten. Take the last pile and break it in half then break one pile of 5 in half again – a 2 and a 3. Then restack the last pile of ten and check that all piles are level and touching each other. I keep checking!

    It only takes a split second. But that split second cost me $1000. Ever since, I constantly check!

  68. Great stuff as usual Ellis. I would add to always keep track of your money management during a shoe and if you are already up a certain number of units then have a stop to lock those in as you may already be up a great amount and don’t want to start betting huge over this run and ruin your well earned chips from the previous part of the shoe. Know your own play and what your playing style usually returns you per shoe and either continue to play as you move up or bail out if you are about to jeopardize your gains.

  69. So, OK, first a new member learns 6 simple purely mechanical systems and practices until he can play all six correctly at casino speed. But he doesn’t know which system to play yet.

    So next he learns to perform the SAP count. At first he thinks damn, I’ve got to learn card counting. Ha no, anybody can learn the SAP count and how to enter it on their score card in just a few minutes. Your SAP count tells you which system to play.

    So now you know the six systems and which system is best for the shoe at hand. Often 2 or 3 of our systems will beat the shoe but the SAP count tells you which is best.

    So, let’s say the SAP count is telling you 1’s and 2s are higher than 3s and 4s VERY common. We call that a Choppy shoe. SAP is saying play system S40.

    BTW, S40 got it’s name by winning 40 shoes in a row played at 5 different casinos.

    So there you are cruising along playing S40 when Wham! The shoe changes to streak. You have 2 choices:

    1.) Continue with S40 because it has its own way of playing streaks. BUT, you are going to incur some 3 and 4 and maybe even a rare 5 bet. That might be above a player’s comfort level. So, he has a second choice. That’s what CFC prefers:

    2.) Stop betting after 2 losses. Wait for the streaky section to turn back to chop. Then start back with your base bet.

    But Ellis, what if they are long runs???

    Sure, you can jump in on a long run with base bets. But keep that play separate from your S40 play.

    It might stay Streaky for the rest of the shoe. Just bet Repeats.

    But, more likely, shoes that start out chop, go back to chop. Fine. Resume your S40 with your base bet.

    Look, the dealer must play every hand. You don’t have to. You have the advantage of only playing the best parts of the shoe. But an advantage is not an advantage unless you take advantage of it.

    THAT is what CFC is telling you!

  70. How much can you make once you learn to average just 5 chips per shoe???Hover your curser on the below link starting http://. It will turn red. Hit it and take a good look at our detailed Million Dollar Plan. 3 have made it to a million thus far. ANYONE who puts the study effort in can do it. ANYONE! Maybe YOU will be next!

    The rules? Learn them! Dealers love to take advantage of players who don’t know the rules. That is why we posted them!

    Ha, I watched a dealer hit a Player 8 because all the money was bet on Player!!! If you don’t know the rules, you’ve likely already been cheated!

  71. For all new sign ups this month. The “risk free” quoted means if we can’t win consistently with your local shoe play then we will refund you the $250 that you paid for your one year private membership that normally sells for $750USD. Note: This offer is only valid till January 31st, 2018

  72. Ha, there will be public members who will take what I’ve said here and try to go out and play. Guys, I’m just giving you an idea of what’s on the inside. Your chances of teaching yourself how to win are ZERO. If Bac were that simple there would be no Bac. You need a professional teacher. But ANYONE of normal intelligence with the proper devotion can learn how to beat Baccarat. I’ve been beating this game for 30 years. I teach you everything I know on the private Baccarat forum. I answer ALL your questions. I even invite private Bac members to play with me. But you need to do your part – study and practice with ALL the tools I teach you.

  73. OK check out the thread Amateur vs Pro Examples on the public Baccarat forum. Hover Public Forums and Videos at the top of the page and then hit Public Baccarat.

  74. There are some guys at BTC who are trying to say that BTC is a flat bet forum while CFC is a progressive betting forum. I wish this were true. It would make life a lot easier for me. But it simply isn’t true by any stretch. There are plenty of guys at BTC who bet progressions. I know because I taught them for many years. And there are plenty of guys at CFC who still flat bet while developing their system skills.

    It is perfectly fine with me if BTC wants to limit their play to flat betting. That makes them VERY easy to beat. A flat bettor is like entering a boxing ring with your hands tied behind your back.

    1 would like to show you a very practical demonstration of what we have discussed thus far that highlights the difference between flat betting vs progressive betting, and then highlights System Selection, and finally highlights Exploiting with the 345.

    Let’s take a common example of 20 plays – about 1/4 of a full shoe.

    P1231231232 (our short cut method of posting shoes)

    Long form: P BB PPP B PP BBB P BB PPP BB

    Note that this is ten Players and ten Banks and contains nothing unusual – all 1’s and 2s and 3s. I’ll start all examples at play 2 so they are equally comparable. I can’t post played shoes on this thread but I can post them on the public forum on a thread I will call Amateur vs Pro Examples. But I CAN post the results here. Keep in mind that this is only 20 plays or 1/4 of a shoe.


    A flat bettor betting Opposites scores -1.
    A 123 progression bettor betting Opposites scores +5.

    So already, we’ve demonstrated a 6 point advantage to progressive betting in only 20 plays – actually only 19 plays because we didn’t bet play 1.

    But now let’s add our proper System Selection skills:

    OUR SAP count is telling us High 2s and 3s right from the beginning. That is always OTB4L. Single 1’s, 2s and 3s are what we call OTB4L events. And this column of 20 plays is ALL single 1’s, 2s and 3s.

    So now let’s play it OTB4L with a 1,2 progression. Now it scores +13 with a highest bet of only 2 units.

    Great, but now let’s add Progression Selection. At play 4 we are already winning twice as many bets as we are losing and we get better from there. This definitely calls for our safest Exploit progression the 345.

    We score +27 in a quarter of a shoe !

    Still want to Flat Bet? Flat Betting is for untrained amateurs. See that?

    I’ll post this column on the new thread for all to see in black and white played out all 4 ways. Take a look!

    So let’s play

  75. I agree Ellis,

    Flat betting is like taking 2 thirds of your money and throwing it down the sewer.

    At lease do a 1-2 loop. If your confidence level is 0, just sit back and do paper bets for enjoyment.

  76. Professional Attitude:

    Your attitude is critically important. Once you are trained Bac is no longer a game for you. It’s a job. We teach you how to sniff out the most beatable tables and how to win the most at the right table. Your tote board search is much like casing a bank you intend to rob. Yep, think about it! That’s exactly what you do. Case the joint. Once you know what to look for, Bac is MUCH easier, far safer, and far more profitable. First find the right table then play the right system – the system that your SAP count tells you to play. Then adjust your progression to your hit rate.

    But Ellis, you just told us that Bank or Player is 50/50 and then you pay commission???

    It is 50/50 if you flip a coin. BUT, all shoes have a bias – sometimes more than one. Your SAP count is like a guardian angel It points out the bias AND its strength. Then your system changes the odds in your favor.

    Take a shoe, for example, that ends up 70% Repeats and 30% Opposites – Very common. Your O/R count is tracking that bias throughout the shoe.

    What were your odds every time you bet Repeats? They certainly weren’t 50/50, were they. AND that is exactly what both your O/R count and your SAP count are telling you to do!

    And when you are winning 70% of your hands, you don’t flat bet. That would be pure stupid! You likely started with the 123. But then your counts reveal the exact strength of the Repeat bias. So does your hit rate. So you move up from 123 to 234 or better yet U1D2B2. (Up 1 when you lose, down 2 when you win, basing at 2.) We call that The Plow and for good reason.

    So OK The Plow does well. But your 70% hit rate is screaming at you to Exploit. So you move up to the 345 – the safest Exploit progression there is.

    I just showed you one of Jordan’s shoes. Sure, Jordan did well! BUT he didn’t make 71 units, did he. I played OTB4L 345, because that was the system my SAP count TOLD me to play and my hit rate demanded the 345. 71 units just following OTB4L every play.

    Ha, so one of the BTC guys, Oz, flat bet “my” shoe and scored +21.

    First, it wasn’t “MY” shoe, it was Jordan’s actual shoe from the night before – right Jordan?

    Second, Oz says he doesn’t play MY way anymore. Fine, but then why did he play OTB4L. That’s MY way, not his. Why didn’t he play it HIS new way?

    Third, why would anyone brag about making “21” units in a 71 unit shoe???

    To be continued…

  77. So, BronxAl, you had a $40,000 trip with the 345. Nice going!

    One thing I would caution you: Always starting with ANB is very good for the vast majority of shoes. I’ve done that myself. But you MUST be on the lookout for shoes that start super chop – all 1’s and 2s. When you see that, quickly switch to S40. You’ll be glad you did. And the 345 KILLS super chop playing S40.

  78. Happy New Year to all,

    I only use ANB in the beginning of the shoe until I recognize its flow (trend) , then I become fluid as in Marshall Arts. I change as the shoe changes as an ever flowing river. I’m no longer mechanical. I cannot break it down, rules do not apply except subconsciously. My progression was 3, 4, 5 with black chips. When I hit a sweet spot I parlayed. After 4 or 5 shoes I am playing purple.

    My advice for beginners is to study all the mechanics and rules for SAP, NOR, MDB, and ANB 2hrs. to 4hrs a day as I still do.. It may take several years, but it’s worth it.


  79. Nice going BronxAl ! Goes to show you that the 345 is the safest progression you can Exploit with! Of all progressions, including the 1234, you can lose the 345 the most times and still win the shoe. The 345 can win shoes the 1234 loses to. Should you always play it? No! But when you FIRST find the best table to play with your tote board reading skills and when the table bias starts out strong, jump on the 345. It can score 70 units where a flat bettor scores 5 or 6.

    Flat Betting is for the amateur who has no confidence in his side selection skills – his system play and his System Selection.

    Sure, there are tables so weak that Flat Betting is best. I avoid those tables altogether. I ONLY play tables with a strong bias. And when the bias remains strong or gets even stronger, as it so often does, BOOM, the 345 kills! – just as you found out.

    Flat Betting is only best when you LOSE. I avoid such tables altogether. I don’t play to lose – I only play tables I KNOW I can beat. Any table a Flat Better wins, a progression bettor wins more – a lot more.

    But yes, flat betting is best for amateurs who have not been trained, and simply guess, based on shoe history. More than 99% of the players play that way – they simply guess. They lose at seemingly impossible rates in a 50/50 game. They are WHY the casinos deal Baccarat – the only 50/50 game in the casino! Guessers win an average of 43% of their bets. They would be much better off to simply flip a coin! At least they would win half their hands in the long run.

    Flat betting is best when you have no play skills. But once you have developed good playing skills and table selection skills – you leave flat betting behind – for the amateurs. Now it is time to develop good progression selection skills. And when you see that you are winning more than half the hands and seldom losing 3 in a row, the 345 KILLS very safely.

    Nice going BronxAl. It is a pleasure and an honor to teach players like you!

  80. I don’t “limit my Stop Win daily rate at 20% of my daily bankroll”. I would go all out as long as opportunity knocks. All you have to do is have a stop lost of -10 from your shoe highest score. Thereby, having more than 20% or leaving a shoe before any serious lost.


  81. Merry Christmas Everyone,

    I just returned from Vegas, playing at the MGM and surrounding casinos.

    Played three days using ANB and OT. Profited 400 units using 3-4-5 playing black chips. having a stop lost of -10 from the shoes highest score.

    Thank you Ellis.

  82. So Mark, I see your order went through smoothly. Welcome aboard – and all the others I missed.

    Al, I like the idea of a trailing stop loss! Usually we use 5 but ANB needs lots of room to maneuver. So I like 10.

    I haven’t been posting much because I have been busy playing a lot. This ANB is like taking candy from a baby, especially when you partner it with OTB4L.

    I’ve been posting my casino shoes on the private forum. I noted that casinos are quick to deal anti history shoes when we play MvD. But ANB, they haven’t a clue what to do because they can’t figure us out. We appear to be betting randomly. I’ve even had pit bosses ask me – What the hell are you doing? I tell them I’m flipping a coin. The only thing that can sometimes beat ANB is OTB4L shoes. Ha, but then we switch to OTB4L because such shoes are so obvious. We’ve got them coming and going. And there’s not a dam thing they can do about it.

    You’ll be playing a lot too once you learn ANB and OTB4L. Both are fully explained in your FW manual – along with sample games.

    Practice at home until you can play both systems smoothly. Ask any questions on the private forum. Ha, but I’m not getting many. Your manual is very explanatory. Soon you see WHY we do what we do.

    Then you are ready. See you in the casinos! Maybe YOU will be our next Millionaire.

  83. Any and all members are invited to my July 9th week Lake Charles trip.

    Who knows, we might do another table take down!!!

    Much tougher at L’auberge! They’ve got a lot more chips in their trays.

    But then WE have got the best system the casinos have ever seen!

    Their only defense against ANB is to deal OTB4L. Ha, but we KILL OTB4L shoes!

  84. We always do that Cochesse. The more a shoe favors OTB4L, the riskier it is for ANB and vice versa.

    Put another way, virtually every shoe can be beat by either ANB or OTB4L. About 80% of shoes mostly favor ANB but roughly 20% favor OTB4L.

    This does not mean that ANB always loses to high 2s. I posted a shoe on the ANB review thread just yesterday that had 12 2s. Yet ANB scored +19.

    A player can beat 80 – 90 % of shoes with ANB alone. But if he is also skilled in OTB4L, he can win closer to 100%.

  85. You mention switching to OTB4L in shoes starting with a 2 or a 1,2. Would you always do that? Or was that because of what you were seeing in that particular casino, that day?

  86. Hi Rich! Right, I’m playing a lot more these days since I finally got the manual completed and I’m finding the same things you are. ANB works better than ANY system ever all by itself. But when you couple it with OTB4L when you see high 2s, the results are nothing short of spectacular!

    This last Tunica trip I got a lot of comments from the casino personnel just like I got on the Las Vegas trip. They have no clue what we are doing.

    For Instance: From my dealer when I was killing a shoe everyone else was losing. “You’ve really got this game figured out don’t you.” I haven’t seen you lose a single shoe!” How long did that take you?”

    My reply: “40 years.”

    “FCOL! You were playing before I was born!”

    Guys, maybe you could figure it out in 40 years too! But remember, I was a Calculus Professor with a 160 IQ. Why bother? Save yourself 40 years.

    I teach you EVERYTHING I know. I keep no secrets.

    I’m only playing 2 systems now. That’s all I need to win every shoe.

    I’m playing ANB about 80% of the time and winning every shoe. I only resort to OTB4L when a shoe starts out with high 2s – easy to see. I’m not using any math whatsoever – Just following the written rules. ANYBODY can do this.

    BTW I’m also getting good reports from on line players.

    We’ve got the casinos between a rock and a hard place. The only thing that can beat ANB is OTB4L shoes. Fine, because we beat those with ease.

    I’m getting used to soundly beating shoes everyone else at the table is losing. They look at us in wonderment. Ha, so does the dealer and the Pit Boss.

    ANYBODY can learn to do this! – ANYBODY!

    Al, I like your idea. I’ll look into it.

  87. Its working out just as you posted Ellis. Had a very good night playing ANB. I’m a big fan of MVD also. Both performing very well! T

  88. Hi Ellis,

    In the ANB casino test results – 68 shoes;

    If you used a trailing stop of say -10 from your highest point score in each shoe. Wouldn’t you have a higher win shoe score?

  89. James 11, once you get your FW Manual, one of the first things it teaches you is how to post shoes using our short cut method. You can post shoes in seconds. It’s simple. Start a new thread in the Private Forum – Shoes from Greece or some such. Post a couple of what you would consider typical shoes from your casino. We will review them and get you started on the right foot.

  90. Hi Mr.Ellis,

    Got in touch with cfc,i will finalize my order in Monday morning due to my bank being kind of lazy and not completing my deposit on time(5 days for funds to show up to the account+capital controls in Greece), so i hope there is no problem with that.

    -I am wondering if we could have a little chat via email about which system i should choose for the shoes i am getting?

  91. You know, I fully recognize that nearly every Baccarat site on the internet is either an out and out scam or some total incompetent.

    This site is NOT a scam. It is the cutting edge of Baccarat. These other sites – they got everything they know from me. You might as well go straight to the horse’s mouth.

    I just wish our private members would spend a little more time giving the public the straight dope. But once they get busy winning, they forget about you guys.

  92. Hi sopeculiar and welcome to the group. I see you were able to navigate the purchase order W/O my help. Please join us on the private forum on the latest ANB discussion thread. That is what you want to learn first because it has the highest shoe win rate and the highest win average of any system in the entire 400 yr history of Baccarat. We will give you any help you need and answer any question you have. Then I’m hoping you will post on the public forum and tell folks how easy it is to learn. Different for sure, but nevertheless easy – 6 rules cover EVERYTHING that can happen in a shoe.

    Then once you supplement that with the 5 NOR systems you can beat almost anything they throw at you. You’ll get all the help you need but somehow I’m thing you’re not the type that will need much. Good hunting!

  93. But try that shoe any other way you choose. You will lose because it’s a trick shoe. But play it according to your manual and you not only win, you win big time – much to the dismay of the other players as well as the casino.

    That is what we do. We use the casino’s own tactics against them!

  94. So James, is your order proceeding OK ?

    I noted I left something ambiguous in my last post. Yes we incurred 2 4 bets in total, but that was one 4 bet in each of 2 shoes. The entire table take down only took 2 shoes. How could we empty a chip tray in only 2 shoes? Because the entire table – 6 players and sometimes a 7th, were ALL betting the same way – all following my lead. There were no losing players to replenish the chip tray.

    A player sent me a shoe just yesterday that, however he played it, he lost and quit the shoe. Here, I’ll give you the shoe:


    I explained to the player, this is a favorite casino trick shoe. It starts out perfect TB4L. Probably the whole table will be lulled into playing the 400 year old TB4L system. Ha, but then the shoe dissolves into a rash of 2s which kill a TB4L player and the whole table loses – just as the casino planned.

    So how does your manual handle this shoe?

    Well the O/R count alone – which your manual teaches you in seconds dictates that you play Repeats which your manual also teaches you.

    Sure enough, Repeats scores +10 in this half of a shoe.

    So the player asked me “how would ANB do?.

    So I played it ANB for him. It gets to +7 and finishes at +6.

    BUT, ANB needs a full shoe. It tends to build up kinetic energy in the first half of the shoe which it releases in the second half.

    So while ANB was only at +6 while Repeats was at +10, ANB did not get the chance to release in the second half because the player quit after only half a shoe.

    I have little doubt that in the second half, ANB would have released and outperformed Repeats.

    But note how incredibly choppy the shoe became right after the 2nd Bank 5iar. You would think Repeats would get killed. But NO, it scores very well in the super chop. So does ANB.

    So Repeats is at +10 so far but it hit -4 on the way to +10 and already incurred a 4 bet.

    Meanwhile ANB is only at +6 but with a worst position of -1 and a highest bet of 3. But it never got a chance to release. Once given that chance, ANB is likely on its way to +25 or more. Repeats is going to struggle to get to +20 given all that super chop.

    Ha, but either way, we do far better than the other players who have probably already lost big time playing TB4L.

    My point is, EVERYTHING you need to know to beat this shoe big time is in your FW manual. As I told this player – you need to study your manual. You lost for ONE reason only – lack of study.

    This shoe was a breeze for us while watching all the other players lose big time. Casino tactics work on the other players. But we THRIVE on those same tactics or any other casino tactics – much to the shock of the casino folks.

    So why did our player lose? He did not pay enough attention to his O/R count which was telling him exactly how to play. We’ve all made that mistake once. But we learn from our mistakes.

  95. James, welcome aboard! I forwarded your message to CFC. Just let CFC know and we’ll get you all set up for the $750 promotion price by sending you an invoice from PayPal.

  96. Hi mtman! I guess you could say that I held a bit of a grudge against Flamingo for catching on to our MvD strategy so quickly a couple months ago. But against ANB there is no casino defense. So yesterday I took them on with ANB. I had 6 followers at the table – precise followers. Only two of them our guys but the other 3 knew a good thing when they saw it. To make a long story short – we emptied out their chip tray. It only took us two shoes. But I’m sure its not me you want to hear from. I’ll let them tell you the whole story.

  97. It’s been a while since i have written to this forum . So here it goe”s :
    I have been following this web sight since it’s beginning and have seen it mature to where it is today . And the only thing i can say is ” WOW ” !!!! . It has two concepts that work hand in hand with 4 others as Ace Kickers if needed to stick it to the Casinos .
    Today is Saturday 5-6-2017 . And I used just the 2-Main features of the Final Word Manual , ( FW ) , today at my local casino . And walked away with a 37 Point profit . After 44 hands dealt . My one point is based at $250.00 dollars . That’s just over 9 (Nine) thousand dollars profit . Just two systems out of the 6 that are offered , Produced this .
    Just over an hours work at the tables and i’m going home with cash in hand , no taxes to pay , (under 10 thousand ).
    So using ANB and OTB4L with a simple progression made my day . So these 2-systems will be my main systems untill one of the other 4 systems sticks out like a sitting duck . Then i’ll pull the trigger on one of them and walk out after playing only one maybee two games .
    So yes , this has my backing for everyone to learn .

    Thanks Ellis and to those who contributed there insight into these systems …


  98. Kevin, aka Bac: You’ve been with me a lot of years and have always been very supportive so I’m going to give you a BIG, money making tip:

    I don’t know if you are following the Private Baccarat forum BUT…

    Guys are calling me and posting about this new discovery left and right!

    The recommended combination of OTB4L and the brand new ANB is beating virtually every shoe in the casinos, everywhere, right now. It is the best strategy ever devised in the whole world, EVER! And I’m not talking 5 units. I’m talking 20 and 30 units. It is all right there on the private forum. Everyone who ever had a notion to play Baccarat needs to be studying that combination fully explained right now on the private forum! If you aren’t, NOW is a good time to start.

    In return for your continued support all these years.

  99. Kevin, I’ll call you to get your mailing address updated. Hope you are finally enjoying your newest home in Vegas. And I hope they got your new pool finished. It’s Vegas! You’ve got to have a nice pool!

  100. Hey, Ellis

    It is indeed good to hear TheFinalWord is near. Glad to hear you still have my address, but it changed twice since 2015, so since it seems the book is very close to release, I will gladly send you an update.

    You have many of us hoping that TFW will bring you the success of such books as ThinkAndGrowRich, WhoMovedMyCheese and The7Habitsof HighlyEffectivePeople and be a true Bible of Baccarat…among the most enriching, self-improvement books of all time.

    I am encouraged to hear you will honor your commitment to all who have paid for TFW

    I am equally convinced that you will find a way to update the content of TFW …whether ” virtually” with large doses of digital content, or in person through seminars/new systems releases , etc.

    And in so far as you never promised ” perpetual updates, at no cost” to anyone, I can only assume TFW , in which so many of us were early-stage investors, and have long-awaited , will include what you believe an encyclopedia of baccarat , to the degree you originally promised…and that after that, we are each free to chose whether to continue our paid ECD education, or not.

    Yes, living in Las Vegas affords me the luxury of playing as often as I want to…ofttimes alongside the many people you have counted as supporters along the way. Sooner or later, many of the best find their way here.

    I wish for everyone only the best, and anxiously await TFW’s arrival in my mailbox.

    In the meantime, I would encourage anyone reading this
    who is NOT WINNING regularly to continue their education.

    The more you learn, the more successful you will be in the casino…

    And that is what it is all about. ( Winning )


  101. Well Hi Kevin (BAC), long time no hear. Right, it’s been about two years.

    We gave you free access as a contributor to the private forum at CFC but you disappeared only to be found typing my 4D system on the public forum at BTC. Lots of pages. Did you ever get it completed?

    All of the Final Word Systems have been published on the private forum at CFC and hundreds of questions answered. I call them the ANOR systems: O/R and Sap counting included along with tote board reading. S40, for high 1’s; OTB4L for high 2s; OTB4L+ for high 3s; TB4L for low 2s; Repeats for high 4+ and F3 for Strong Side. I’m current finishing up Net Betting. We need Net Betting to beat today’s shoes.

    Kevin, I never bad mouthed tote boards. I canvas them every time I play because I want the easiest table to beat. When I learned, tote boards had not yet been invented. They make your day so much easier if you already know what to play before you sit down.

    I’m not concerned with the evolution of Baccarat over the last 400 years. I’m concerned about something far more important to my students. The evolution of the game over the last THREE years. Just a few years back, virtually every shoe displayed one NOR bias or another.

    Not today. It’s as if casinos are purposely designing anti NOR shoes – equal PvB counts, equal O/R counts, equal SAP counts. We maybe see one NOR shoe out of 5 or 10 shoes.

    It is a whole new ball game today. The old rules no longer apply. But, as I pointed out on the private forum just this morning – close PvB counts are a strong playable and exploitable bias in themselves. I posted a shoe of 30 plays that ended with Ps tied with Bs just like we keep seeing in Vegas and Tunica these days – the same shoe type we see the whole table lose to. Following my simple instruction, it scored +30 W/O ever going negative.

    Yes, you always were a great supporter and I miss you. I wish we were together again. Say what you will about CFC but when BTC dumped me, CFC was the only game in town. I’m too old to take up golf again. I didn’t leave BTC on my own accord you know.

    Correct, I still owe you a manual even though you could have already got it off the CFC forum. And I still have your mailing address in Vegas. But I’m glad I didn’t mail them out 2 years ago. That gave me the opportunity to add the systems needed to compete in TODAY’s game. Once I mail them, that’s it. I can’t go back and change them.

    Kevin, I can’t control what casinos do. But I CAN react. That’s what I do.

  102. OK Brian, it’s a date – 6pm at Palazzo Stadium bac! Did real good there last time. 20 out of 20 avg +20 – OTB4L. Dragon Slayer, can you make it with us?

  103. Hello Ellis and everyone. It’s been quite a few years since I’ve been to one of these seminars. Just wanted to say you will not be disappointed. Ellis how about we all get together Sunday the 7th for some stadium bac at the Venetian or Palazzo? From what I understand bets as low as 2.00 to ? Just a thought if not i’ll see you all Monday morning.
    Thanks, Brian.

  104. How to Register for The Invincible Player seminar?

    Look above. This is a don’t miss seminar – for sure, the most important I’ve ever done out of hundreds.

    Just because it may be free for you, don’t think it is unimportant. It is the best use of your time you ever spent. Register now! Become Invincible!

  105. I know from vast seminar experience that overhead projectors are a great tool. Those were always my best seminars. When you can watch on screen a tote board being dissected. What are we looking for and how do we find it and how do we determine which system to play and how to bet it? Something always stands out on a tote board.

    Think of a tote board as money. The tote board is trying to tell you how to get the money. The tote board is your best tool in the casino – any casino – any day. All of our best players will tell you that. But the tote board is in code. You need to know how to decipher it.

    And the best tool to show you that is screen shots of actual tote boards provided by overhead projector. So that is what I will be doing first at the seminar – System selection from the tote board.

    So once you know which is the strongest tote board right now in this casino, how to decipher it, and how to listen to it and determine the best system and exactly how to best play that system as well as how best to bet it, you become invincible.

    THAT is what this seminar is about and all taught play by play using the overhead projector to create realism.

    THAT is what this seminar is about – how to become an invincible player.

    ANYbody can do this – but less than 1% know how. That’s my job!

  106. Would luv to go but I will be at the Derby that weekend! Unless I hit it big and can catch a plane to Vegas…Have a good seminar everyone!

  107. Just a correction to the Casino Forum Club note to Miclus83 ( A Public Member who is thinking about joining our MvD Circle of Private Members). ANB is not just for streak. It beats chop and neutral as well. It does not care if any biases keep changing because it does not function on biases.

    I’m also teaching a sister net bet system right now on the private forum that I call S3. S3 may very well be the best Baccarat System of all time. It is the simplest system ever and I’ll be teaching it at the seminar as well since I can teach the whole thing in 5 minutes.

    I played S3 for many years full time in the casinos and made a fortune with it. I had not planned to ever teach it and just keep it for my own private use. But, I’m not getting any younger.

    The casinos have come full circle and are right back to dealing random shoes as their main tactic. That is what you are seeing in Singapore and all of Asia and that is what we are seeing here in the US and Canada.

    S3 is a very high scoring system. +20 is normal. +30 and +40 are common. S3 doesn’t care what the shoe is doing: chop, streak, neutral. biases or no biases – it simply doesn’t care. It functions on WHATEVER the shoe is doing and is adjustable to the shoe at hand. Purely mechanical. ONE rule. I can explain the whole thing in one sentence.

    We must always react to whatever the casinos are doing. No lasting biases – Fine – we put our bias systems aside and play S3. It kills these shoes we are seeing today. I personally highly recommend it. Sometimes simplest is best.

  108. For information purposes, I got May 7 through May 11 comp at the Flamingo. I had to pay $136 for the Resort Fees. I talk to Steven.
    Phone: 1-866-503-5494. I have a Rewards card.

    Ed Gil

  109. Feedback regarding ANB (Advanced Net Bet) inquiry:

    HI Miclus83
    Yes Ellis has finished working on ANB and it’s already proven to work very well as a great way to attack streaky shoes and Ellis was going to sell it with the MvD upgrade manual for $300 but we both agreed that it would be better to include it with The Final Word instead since it already is a Advanced version of Net Bet and part of NOR which could sell on it’s own.

    And since The Final Word which sells for $1,200 as a surprise bonus we will also include ANOR (Advanced NOR as well).

    So with all of these proven products at our disposal makes us Invincible.

    Great Baccarat weaponry to keep in your Baccarat tool box.

    Hope this best answers your inquiry,

    Good fortunes to you,
    CFC B-)

  110. Hi xingbnso
    Great question re: Seminar fee to attend:

    No fee for our existing MvD Private Members.

    And a promo discount seminar rate of $500 for our existing Non MvD Private Members (that’s a $250 savings normally offered at 50% off our current $1,500 cost for MvD on it’s own). So they don’t pay $750 for MvD but only $500 and get to attend the seminar as well with their $500 upgrade fee for MvD which includes their manual to be given out at the seminar.

    Great deal for all our members.

    And for our Newbie Public Members $1,500 includes no charges for all seminars for life.

    Also they get the same discount rate of 50% for all CFC product like The Final Word which will include ANB Advanced Net Bet which is a very powerful companion game to MvD.

  111. You got it Brian! I’ll post it on its own SS F3 thread in the private Bac forum. I’m sure others want to see it like maybe black2bac and Cochesse and Danny. Everybody will want to see it when they get wind of how high it scores.

    F3 is a very strong high scoring system. Some players have done very well playing F3 only. F3 won a $25,000 Bac tournament in Tunica.

  112. Hi Ellis, I’d like to see a review of SS. I can’t see why you have to put
    a portion of MVD on the public forum except for marketing?

  113. BTW black2bac, speaking of the high prevalence of SS shoes lately… I recall mentioning to Ed Gil during our last trip to Lake Charles at one of their two excellent casinos:

    “No matter how they start, every shoe here, both the high stakes and low stakes tables, eventually dissolves into SS. We can do very well here just playing SS no matter how the shoe starts.” And, we DID!

    How are you with SS? I could do a quick refresher on the private forum???

    Or, would anyone else like to see that since we are seeing so many of the darn things lately?

  114. Well black2bac, I appreciate your comments which are all correct as usual. I also appreciate your phone comments regarding the Vegas casinos recently favoring SS Strong Side shoes. I’ve also noticed that both at Tunica and Lake Charles and was able to take huge advantage of some SS shoes recently.

    But I don’t think you are grasping the overall picture completely:

    You seem to think MvD is some sort of junior system, perhaps because it is a simple stand alone approach that requires no counts – And perhaps because we tend to pitch it to new guys.

    But look, I designed MvD out of desperation to beat what the casinos are dealing TODAY. I’m a NOR player but the casinos know NOR and they know how to deal anti NOR shoes. They HAD to do that to survive!

    Now, WE need to survive! So I designed MvD to beat the shoes we see everywhere TODAY. And it does! – as many MvD players here have attested – including myself.

    It would be nice if we could just sit back and play the NOR systems and win every shoe like we could just a few years back. But those days are GONE! Today’s casinos know NOR and they know how to design anti NOR shoes. We needed a technique that does not depend on biases – that beats the anti NOR shoes we are seeing so many of TODAY – that beats BOTH biased and unbiased shoes. We needed an approach based on history – the very history of the shoes we are seeing today.

    I slaved over my recent shoes from Tunica, Vegas and Lake Charles until I could beat them handily. It required an approach with a completely different basis – a history basis rather than a bias basis – in fact a split history basis – an approach that looks at Player and Bank history separately. That has never been done before but never have the shoes we see TODAY been done before.

    MvD is not a junior system. It is a survival system. Call it a necessary evil if you want but we can’t survive W/O it – not in today’s game.

    Yes it IS simple and Yes it CAN stand alone and yes, it needs no counts and YES we CAN flat Bet it. But none of those facts make it a junior system. They just make it easier to play.

    For experience members in that second group, a good tote board reader can predict the best MvD shoes. WE can play it more professionally. But the fact is, we need it to survive in today’s game. Sure, we still see a sprinkling of NOR so we need NOR too but we can’t survive in today’s game W/O MvD.

    Which reminds me: BTC does not have MvD. Maybe that is why they are about to hold a BJ seminar in Vegas.

    Yep, they will be demonstrating NBJ First Base as well as 0 Proximity. Ha, both my copyrighted BJ approaches. What does THAT tell you?

    BTW, so EVERYBODY knows exactly what they are buying, and why, I’m going to post the first page of the MvD Manual on our public forum.

  115. I despite my 2 decades of playing the game of baccarat am still a student of the game but some of the old school baccarat that I learned before will never change and is still applicable even up to these day and age.whatever that is: is for you guys to find out by reviewing the private baccarat forum discussion AGAIN and incorporating some that knowledge and see what works and used that to your advantage and getting rid of what doesn’t work. (Mark my words, the casino will never present an easy table at first,and each casino is different) :good:
    And since you are a student of the game for me,it’s like taking a multiple choice test,choose from A to E .The best choice being the best system that fits the best table which of course results in the best profits BOTTOMLINE!! How’s that from an analogy standpoint!!

  116. Glad to see that you’ve drawn the distinction between players. Now that MvD has been delivered to those who wanted it, perhaps we can get back to the business of discussing ways of achieving greatness in this game.

    True, as you say, some of us want to know “every trick of the trade”. Some of us also know that no single system or approach wins long-term, because in the era of ‘designed’ shoes that we now face, the casinos can always modify their games to counter that single system. But as a shoe is designed to counter any one system, it usually leaves itself vulnerable to one or two others, which can be exploited, if you know what they are, and if you know what is possible.

    If you know all possible scenarios, and know what weapon to use for each one, in addition to what adjustments to make if your weapon initially fails, then pretty soon the casino can’t fake you out!. Pretty soon, you become INVINCIBLE. Isn’t that mastery of the game what everyone would like to have?

    Some of us want to achieve greatness that can’t be discouraged just because the casino presents a moving target, or switches trends from one bias to another. Some of us are waiting to get back to to discussing the finer points of the entire game, including knowledge of how to play the game and how and what to bet.

    True some of us may be further down the road of knowledge about this game, but still WE WANT MORE!….You promised more. You said your legacy would be to train consistent winners, masters of the game…..thoroughbreds. Isn’t that more important than designing a single “party player “system that wins this year but not next year?

    We’re ready whenever you are…..

  117. So why did I quit at +40 rather than finish this great shoe??? That is what those hash marks mean – That’s where I QUIT.

    In a word, ha, or 2 words – Cash Management. We are VERY aware of the decade we are in: 1 – 9; 10 – 19; 20 – 29; 30 – 39; 40 – 49, etc. especially near the end of the shoe. Once we achieve a decade, we think twice before making a bet that could take us back below that decade. Near the end of the shoe it becomes a rule: DON’T make a bet that could take you below the decade you are in. – Quit the shoe instead. It’s another trick of the trade.

    This time that rule cost me 1 unit. I quit at +40 when I would have hit +41.

    But other times, staying in could cost me everything I’ve won and then some. How many times have you found yourself way ahead in a shoe only to lose it all in the last few plays? The Decade rule stops that. It insures you get out of the casino WITH your winnings. Winnings Retention you might call it. – Yet another trick of the trade.

    Ha, if everybody got out when they were ahead – there would be no casinos!

  118. About that posted shoe I played – some insights for the general public:

    ALL of our systems beat that shoe : S40, OTB4L, OTB4L+, TB4L, Repeats, SS, MvD, SAP, and Net Betting. BUT, the SAP Count is screaming at us that OTB4L+ will beat it the best – and it DOES ! – How often do you break 40 in half a shoe???

    The SAP Count is like playing with a Guardian Angel on your shoulder. It is telling you how best to play the shoe and how best to bet it. We simply follow the system the SAP Count is telling us to play – In this case OTB4L+ by a mile.

    I could have bet the 345 a lot safer: I call your attention to plays 27 and 38. Whenever we go on the run (OTR) until we lose, we call that losing bet a “sacrifice” bet. We have a Cash Mgt. rule that says “Do not increase your bet after a sacrifice.” I ignored that rule. Not Good. I got lucky and won either the 4 or the 5 both times. Had I implemented the sacrifice rule the score would have still hit +41. This time. But I was risking losing the entire prog. The 345 is much safer with the sacrifice rule. I should have used it. – My bad! I got lucky with it – THIS time.

    The 345, the Sacrifice rule, the SAP Count: These are what we call “Tricks of the Trade”. We teach you a LOT of them – they separate winners from losers.

    You might be thinking : How can a 345 possibly be safer than a 123???

    Well it IS safer – a lot safer. Look, when you lose a 123, you are 6 base bets down – almost impossible tp recover with 1 bets. BUT when you lose a 345 you are only 4 base bets down – a minor inconvenience. See that?

    Proof? The 345 won 41 units. I could have lost the entire prog 3 times and I STILL win the shoe with +5. And it is nearly impossible to lose a 3 bet prog more than 3 times in half a shoe – Especially if you are playing the system SAP dictates.

    So there is this guy in your game betting thousand dollar units and he has bought in 3 times this shoe. But you note that the Pit Boss is totally ignoring him. He is watching YOU. And you are only betting quarters.

    Why is the Pit Boss watching ME and not HIM???

    Ha, because HE is losing more bets than he’s winning. He has fallen prey to the casino’s strategy. THAT is what is SUPPOSED to happen. The average player only wins 43% of his hands because they fall victim to the casino strategy.

    YOU, on the other hand, being well trained, are consistently winning more bets than you are losing by taking advantage of the casino strategy. THAT is what SAP DOES!. That is its job – its purpose. THAT is not supposed to happen! YOU stick out like a sore thumb. The Pit Boss is a professional. He knows it’s just a question of time before you raise your unit. YOU are the threat – not him. He’s just desperately trying to get even. But YOU are winning in spite of the casino strategy – in fact, BECAUSE of the casino strategy. THAT is NOT supposed to happen! So it is YOU the Pit Boss watches. He already knows that other guy is no threat. But YOU….

    The average player wins 43% of his hands. If you simply flipped a coin you would win 50% in the long run. A vast improvement! But you are still losing at the rate of commission. So MY job is to get you ABOVE 50%! And I am the best there is. Ask anybody – even the casino – THEY know. I’m not bragging – just stating mathematical fact. WITH me, you win. W/O me you have no chance against tested casino strategy. If you are in a casino, I’m the only friend you’ve got.

  119. War Stories: Speaking of high 3s, it was late 1993 because I was driving my black 1994 Lexus SC 400 which I had paid cash for trading in my 1992 SC400, perhaps the fastest and most luxurious 4 seater on the road in those days. Horrible in the snow but I had my Land Cruiser for that – $60,000 cash. No car payments!

    The casinos were on their “spitting 3s” campaign everywhere you went. Nearly every shoe had too many 3’s. They had concocted that 3s were the worst event. No system beat 3s in those days. Normal 3s for a full shoe is 4.5. We were seeing anywhere from 8 to 13 3s in nearly every shoe.

    So I had designed a killer system that exploited high 3s – The Ladder System simply bet on 3s. You bet ascending 3 bet up as you win progressions. Your first progression was either 123 or 246. The second bet is twice the first bet and your 3rd bet is the first two added together. Your next prog starts with the middle bet of your last prog. Whenever you won a prog you went up one rung of the ladder. So if you started with a 2 bet like most of us your progs would be 2 4 6. 4 8 12, 8 16 24, 16 and so forth. When you lost a bet, you went down one rung.

    I had already done 2 highly successful exhibitions of the Ladder System at Atlantic City and Foxwood $100 14 player tables so I had amassed a considerable following.

    So at high noon 9 of us descended on Turning Stone – an Indian Casino in the middle of nowhere in the foothills of the Adirondacks in central NY State.

    The first partial shoe went well. With 8 3s we ended UP about $8000. All 9 of us plus two locals who quickly decided to bet WITH us.

    The pit boss was running around with his hair on fire making frantic phone calls. Blue coats were coming out of the woodwork.

    The second shoe started with one Bank followed by 5 3s !

    Ha, my friend Jack McCann had got there late, only made 2 sporadic bets at the end of the first shoe. He lost both, putting him in a sour mood. But at play 4 in the 2nd shoe he was already up $1200, when he announced frantically: “Guys, sorry but I’ve GOT to go to the john and I’ve got to go right now – play my cards for me !” He had two piles of 10 blacks on the table. Keith played his cards. Jack got back at hand 11. He saw 10 piles of 10 blacks at his spot, turned and started walking away. “Jack!” I yelled. “Where the hell are you going?” “Back to the john ! I do better when I’m in there!”

    Hand 17 ! We put up our 3rd table max bet of $6000. We had just won 15 bets in a row! – all 11 of us. The blue coats were frantic! – like cats on a hot tin roof. We were betting Bank – Opposite – that the 5th 3 would stay 3.

    It hit! A horde of blue coats descended with a huge table cover. They covered everything, chips, score cards – everything.


    Ha, that cover stayed on that table for 2 years!

    They escorted us to the cashier then out the front door all the way to our cars, stood there and watched us drive off their property.

    “Guys,” I yelled, “Follow me. I know a great place 10 minutes from here!” ” A great road house with good food.” “They forgot to collect their commission. Let’s go spend it!

    My SC400 loved those winding mountain roads hewn out of the forest. We got there by 2 pm.

    It was war stories embellished by many beers or whatever all afternoon.

    Then steak and lobster! Never touched the $50,000 we each had well tucked away.

  120. For any public forum in the history of public Baccarat forums, I have to say that was the best, most insightful and revealing post ever! Great post

  121. Well, the Dec 2016 seminar held at Marriott Vegas went very smoothly. We will definitely hold our Seminars at Marriott from now on. Their people are very professional and our accommodations were flawless. The students were captivated by personal instruction. Then we played together for several days afterward.

    I did one instruction with the group right in the casino, right at the table, from the tote board, predicting the next plays and explaining my reasoning. My accuracy was dead on. One member commented that I should do all seminars that way. The other students quickly agreed but added that the Marriott white board training was also excellent. .

    Well, I can’t do that with a group all day because the casino would definitely step in. But I WILL add that as a short duration seminar feature from now on.

    However, from now on, we will avoid vacation days when scheduling seminars.

  122. No response for me or you Mtman…….I have been on the fence about joining and was hoping for a good report from the Vegas MvD Seminar and maybe signing up…
    But no word , so guess I am out of here and back to BTC …. :bye:

  123. What’s the good word fellas?!? Anxiously awaiting to hear how the Vegas MVD trip went?! :good:

    mtman B-)

  124. Any comments on the Vegas MvD seminar ?

    How many attended ?

    Did ya’ll go out and stomp the casino afterwards ?

    kinda quiet ?……that no one has posted following the seminar ??

    Maybe toooooo busy making monies ?? :)

  125. Greg, These amateur casino setups are easy to beat by a pro and usually don’t stay in business very long. You have the right idea. Follow what you see – mostly Opposites – you bet Opposites and mostly Repeats – you bet Repeats.

    You will learn how to do this far more formally and far better when you learn NOR.

    See, the avg player does the opposite. They play “Catch Up” that whatever is behind will catch up. This almost never works with regular cards. That is why they lose at an avg rate of 25% in a 50/50 game.

    Wait till they get a load of YOUR stuff – once you learn your stuff. Thy will quickly consider retiring their business.

  126. All those planning on attending the Vegas Dec 28th noon seminar

    please contact me today (Dec 26) and confirm so I can tell you the seminar location near Flamingo.



  127. Without getting too political on US history and civil rights my thoughts turn to the 2nd amendment:
    Right to keep and bear arms

    And how this can be used as a metaphor for Baccarat and how this paradigm can be viewed in a similar light.

    House edge details (8 decks) [7]
    If Bank wins 1.06%
    If Player wins 1.24%

    Well that means for every $100 wagered on the Baccarat table the player is risking these percentage amounts to win. But generally speaking they lose this amount more often than not based on statistics.

    So technically can we honestly say that the average player who puts up a $100,000 as their bankroll truly are risking say just over $1,000 per year?

    I think not. In fact I’ve seen the opposite far too often. Whereas Players lose at a phenomenal rate of up to 57% or more.

    So back to my compassion to the 2nd amendment:
    Right to keep and bear arms

    When you look at what it costs to bear arms ie: State gun licensing fees up to $500 in New York and varied in other states, plus the cost of owning a gun and most importantly being trained on how to use a gun part and parcel which can be quite an expensive hobby.

    Yes a hobby that is an activity done regularly in one’s leisure time for pleasure.

    But let’s Run The Table with Baccarat and to do this same comparison, now we can say that the total cost to do so is only a fraction of the cost of the Right to Bear Arms.

    That’s right, think about it… If MvD and Ellis’ 42 years of experience can easily guide our average players to say winning $100,000 in one year of play, then mathematically it only costs them $1,500 USD to do so, that’s right only 1.5% risked to WIN more than 50% total hands played not Lose…..

    Sounds like very sound numbers to me? What do you the reader of this post think? Are you losing more than $1,500 per year playing Baccarat? Or worse more?

    Well then we already know how much you are will to risk to lose with the hopes of one day winning but let’s turn the tables and now look at what we are willing to invest in order to WIN…

    Now $1,500 doesn’t really seem like such a risk anymore does it? In fact it’s really a higher than 50% advantage being a MvD Private Member that you will win it all back and more in a very short time.

    Now that makes total sense to me how about you?
    Let’s consider the fact that also some of those average six figure players will want to take their game to an even higher level of success…. Say our $$$ Mega Million Dollar Mentorship MvD Program well that is obviously an incredible yield on ROI…

    Which is probably the best ROI out of any investment instrument strategy out there today.

    MvD is the instrument, Now you as a player need to choose what level of player strategy you want to become with the proper training of using MvD in the Casinos.

    Ellis will be posting his 6 levels of player profiles that will help everyone choose which player level strategy best suits their playing expectations.

    Sounds like a great New Years resolution to me!

    Good fortunes to you,

  128. Post testimonial from one of our new MvD members:
    gawags Sent 2 weeks, 2 days ago Star
    Good Evening Ellis

    How do you play soft casino’s like the one I am describing below?

    A friend of mine took me out to a local card room near (Sacramento CA) last week. I knew they had baccarat and I hadn’t played since the MvD manual was published. So, I was ready to sit down and put my training to the test.

    I was surprised that they didn’t use pre-shuffled cards. Even crazier they were only using one shoe of cards per table. No red or blue deck! They just had the one shoe per table and it took 15 minutes to get the table playing again after the shoe ended.

    It was very simple to see the pattern of each shoe and the pattern was either opposites or repeats. It was late afternoon and the patterns were consistent to about play 60-ish. I didn’t really get to play MvD that much. When I did play MvD it was like bringing a grenade to a snowball fight.

    I wasn’t physically feeling well so I wasn’t really trying to go on the attack. This was a scouting mission and a very successful one at that. Flat betting was generating 5 to 10 bets per shoe. This place is going in the rotation next year.


  129. Ha, I couldn’t get us a room at Flamingo. They don’t want me doing seminars there.

    They started out giving me a big choice of rooms – then right in the middle of getting one they emailed me that ALL of their many conference rooms are closed for maintenance that day. I guess I’m still barred there from 20 years ago.

    They showed Keith my computer record at their 40 casinos. While designated a “frequent player” they showed that I never had a losing day in ANY of their 40 casinos in the last 20 years. Ha, so NO, they wouldn’t comp me. And now, they won’t rent me a conference room at any price. In fact, no casino in Vegas has ever let me do seminars at their casinos. Yet they let ANY and ALL of my competitors do seminars at their casinos – including the card counting gurus. That ought to tell you something.

    So we got a room within walking distance of Flamingo. At least for YOU guys.

    And all attendees will be notified of the exact location. That’s the best we could do.

  130. Just a follow up that CFC caters their business focus to the average player and making them above average players to be reckoned with.

    Albeit we still strive to guide those above average players in order to take their game to another level.

    The Mega Millionaire MvD Mentorship program.

    And that is now even more possible with the MvD technique we now have in our arsenal, with Ellis as your guide you can’t fail.

    Why? Because he already has created 3 Mega Millionaires, now who will be next?
    Let’s make it happen,

    CFC :yahoo:

  131. OK, we are solid for Dec 28 at 1PM. I’ll get us a room today @ Flamingo with directions how to find it. Looks like at least 3, more like 5.

    Ordinarily I would not do a seminar with only 5 guys but I have to be there anyway for a family event.

    But then ordinarily we wouldn’t schedule a seminar during the holidays. Sorry Ed. I think this is the only seminar I ever did that you missed. Next time we will pick better dates.

    I will first cover the technique of playing MvD and then how best to bet the shoe at hand. I will also review OTB4L because they are still a favorite of the casino. And anything else the attendees want covered – such as, “The Plow”!

  132. An excellent post gawags! You have clearly demonstrated that MvD can also beat regular cards. In fact you’ve demonstrated MvD can excel against regular cards!

    You are obviously one of my NOR students. It is understandable that you would have more confidence in NOR than the brand new MvD, especially against regular cards. But MvD, probably to your surprise, EXCELLED, didn’t it.

    But please allow me a couple of pointers just as I would coach you under our Mentorship program:

    No problem with the 3 shoes you played. But I call your attention to your practice shoe. Our stop loss is -4, meaning you don’t make a bet that could take you below -4. So you wait for a winning bet and then lose a 1,2 right off the bat putting you at -3 with a 3 bet do. So you quit at -3, NOT -5.

    Then you watch the shoe to see if it turns good. And it does so at play 10.. Fine, now get back in at play 11 with your 345. You struggle to get to +20 at play 29. You hit +20 the second time at play 31. A definite quit signal! But since you got to +23 between the 2 +20s you keep on trucking and lose an entire 345 progression on you way to your third +20 at play 42. That is your THIRD +20 and a final quit signal in our cash mgt program. So you QUIT at play 42 at +20. That nets you +17 for the shoe. So, OK, your would have got to +25 had you stayed in. But then you crash and burn, again demonstrating the wisdom of our cash mgt program. In struggling shoes you are always looking for a good place to get out. And your third +20 is definitely QUIT!

    Guys, this is a demonstration of the quality of our Mentorship program. Normally I would put such posts on the Private MvD forum. But I wanted to give you an idea of what we mean by Mentorship. NO ONE GETS LEFT BEHIND!
    Now, that gives MvD 4 out of 4 winning shoes: +20, +42, +36, +26.

    A black chip player, which if you aren’t already, you soon will be, Playing MvD by the book would be up $12,400 in ONE afternoon.

    Our cost for thoroughly teaching you MvD? – $1500. Any questions?

  133. Post of gawags

    MvD Private Member

    I went to the casino yesterday for some live practice. I work on using the 345 progression when I could. I scored +8 in my warm up shoe which I played as a strong side/repeats. It was the odd duck of the night. MvD didn’t play it very well. The next 3 shoes I used the 345 progression and scored 5+17+30=52. MvD with the 345 progression would have scored 42+36+26= 104. ? MvD would have done it with ease. That’s not hind sight scoring either! The shoes were not pre-shuffled decks and it was early evening time. Please look at shoe number 2. It lost the 345 progression twice (almost back to back) and still made +36 with a drawdown of -5. Check my math!

    Practice Red Shoe: P 112312241229112821134133 : O/R -13 ; Banker +16; MvD-5:

    1 Blue Shoe: B 4112111111312162251312112111211212 : O/R +8; MvD +11; Mvd(345) +42:

    2 Red Shoe: B 21111112225131132121311113111321132154 : O/R +6; MvD +13; Mvd(345) +36:

    3 Blue Shoe: B 42312211111122113121111212236113212 : O/R +7; MvD +7; Mvd(345) +26:

  134. {Or, if need be I could come a day earlier or stay a day later which would also give us Dec 29 or Jan 3. I don’t have a room for either of those nights but I could bunk with one of you guys.}

    hi, Ellis, I could get a comp room in Flamingo for you on those days. Let me know which day you prefer 12/29 or 01/03.

  135. And wayner emailed me this:

    I am sure glad I took the leap of faith and got MvD. Right now I am probably playing 90% correct and going back to read the manuel again. So far I have played 13 shoes and just flat betting and won 12 shoes. Here are my results +10,+1,+10,+5,+14,+1,+6,+5,+6,+1,+3,-3,+4 for 63 units average of 4.8 units flat betting. When I get better I wonder what your optimum betting score will be. Plus I would like to thank you for being a big help when I need to ask you a few questions.


    This is a new student just now learning Baccarat.

    If he can do it……

    A 4.8 average gets you to a million dollars even faster than the 3 guys who already been there, done that.

    Maybe Wayner will be our next Millionaire!

    Are you guys gonna let wayner be next?

    Or will YOU be next???

  136. Hello again everyone . Just returned from Canada FallsView Casino . Meet up with BacMan for some live play at the tables .
    Picked up Valuable knowledge from him on how to play MvD and Reverse MvD. The emphise of our play was mostly Reverse MvD. To see it in live play with real chips on how both methods work ,( Mvd/Reverse MvD ). Was the best learning experence. If you missed it , ( i was the only one there ). You missed a Valuable lesson . I would recommend anyone wanting to attend the Vegas Seminar to do so . You will most likely pick up a few more tid-bits than me ( I had no seminar available ) .Then take that knowledge to the casino’s and make your profit .

    Thanks Again BacMan for meeting me there . It was a Privledge And I’m Very Greatfull to You for the time spent . Just wish I could have stayed longer … THANK YOU My New Friend .


    P.S. Hope i got your screen name correct ….

  137. BTW, Carlos called to tell me our MvD new game start procedure would have greatly improved his overall performance in his 50 shoes results.

    Don’t surprise me none.

    And Bacman contributed that trick.

    I should have thought of that myself.

    Getting old is a bitch!

  138. That goes for everybody. Anyone who knows MvD and MvD3 Betting thoroughly can post their hit rate here once you have 10 or more shoes played. Bets won / total No of bets made. Now we aren’t talking about chips here – just the number of bets that won / the number of bets made.

    Now, PA (Player Advantage) (ROI) is Units Won / Units Bet.. That is important too!

    Hit Rate measures the quality of our bet selection ( how often we bet the winning side) – no matter the amount, while PA measures our overall performance including bet amounts. PA is the best measurment of overall performance.

    Mathematically, the table odds on hit rate is 50%. The ACTUAL historical Avg hit rate in Baccarat is only about 43%. So if you are above 43%, you are already above average. But if you are above 50%, your winning potential is virtually unlimited. THAT is the league you want to be in and it is a fraction of 1% of the total players.

    If your avg hit rate is above 50% this means that you are successfully using the casino’s own tactics against them. And that is the name of the game these days. THAT is what MvD is designed to do. It is YOUR Designer against theirs.

  139. What all is included in the ” FULL PACKAGE DEAL ” ?

    Is it the Vegas Seminar ?

    Thank You !

  140. Today is the Black Friday deal of the century when it comes to Baccarat techniques that actually work!

    Right now from today and throughout this weekend we at Casino Forum Club will offer our full package deal with MvD included for only $1,250.00 USD.

    As of Monday it will still be available but at the $,1500.00 USD rate for MvD on it’s own.

    Which is still a great value based on the fact that it is kicking the Casinos asses right now and will continue for a very long time.

    Best Holiday wishes and good fortunes to all,

  141. Ok Brian and thanks. First, Brian means that his TOTAL losses were -3 : one shoe at -1 and the other at -2. And he only lost those two because he played them out to the end. He would have quit those shoes at +1 with normal cash mgt. Because in actual play, flat betting, once you get to +3 you don’t make a bet that could take you below +1, You quit at +1. So in reality he won all 6 shoes.

    But he doesn’t mention that the winning shoes won by a LOT. One of them was about +20 – exceptionally high for flat betting.

    So Brian, here’s what you do. First, play the next 4 consecutive shoes out of the tester so you have a total of ten played shoes played to correct Cash Mgt.

    Next count your total winning bets and your total losing bets.

    Now you can determine your hit rate: winning bets/ total bets. We are looking for something above the random table odds of 50%.

    That will give us a rough MvD hit rate for regular cards.

    Meanwhile, Carlos is computing his hit rate for “factory preshuffled cards” over at least 50 shoes.

    This way we will have approximate hit rates for BOTH regular and preshuffled cards that can be perfected over time.

    What is the significance of that?

    Look, when you play Baccarat, either you are playing against regular cards or you are playing against “factory” arranged card orders. That is all she wrote. You want to beat BOTH with ONE, SIMPLE approach. THAT has never been done before. Until now with MvD.

    I would like to clearly demonstrate that MvD does BOTH.

    But also, it has been said that no matter the cleverness of the Designer, his avg. hit rate will never exceed 53%. We will see about that. But even only 53% is very, very good. Anybody who can achieve a 53% hit rate is automatically on his way to a million dollars.

  142. Hello everyone, I just got done going over the MvD3 betting with Ellis. In our conversation I told him that I used his old bac system tester circa 1994 ? I played 6 shoes won 4 out of 6 flat betting losses were only 3 units in 2 of those shoes. NOR would have had a field day with these shoes had we had it then. The point I’m trying to make is that MvD beat these shoes without using a prog. Those 2 shoes I lost would have won very easy and would have won more on the other 4 shoes. It beat the NOR shoes without a problem. Ellis, would you comment on our conversation?
    Thanks, Brian.

  143. True point on the Stop Loss, since I am only flat betting at the beginning of all shoes hitting 5+ is relatively easy to do but if it is too easy then I just change my flat bets to a 1,2,3 progression after getting 5+ or more and that’s how i get even bigger returns.

    My shoe win scores will even keep going higher faster and after 10+ or more I then kick it into 3rd gear by changing my progression once again to a 2,3,4 progression.

    That’s when I kill the shoe and just leave the crime scene before the Baccarat Police show up….lol

    I never thought that I could play this way on virtually every shoe but MvD³ gives me the confidence and winning returns to be able to do this consistently on virtually every shoe no matter what the Casinos are throwing at me.


  144. You Math guys: Look, we all agree that our random flip a coin table odds are 50/50.

    Those are the odds MvD needs to beat.

    And we know we do. We know TWO ways:

    First: the flat bettors are winning.

    Second: If MvD was at 50/50 we would be resorting to anti HALF the time.

    Think about it!

    BUT, we AREN’T – not even close!

    MvD does what everybody in this game has been trying to do for 400 years –

    Beat a 50/50 hit rate.

    THAT is the name of the game!

  145. AND, what John said, word for word:

    “Dear Ellis, I’m sorry about not replying to you sooner but I’ve been busy with some of my Accounting studies. I did have a chance to test some more shoes (ie. about 10) and they are all winners (ie. +3 to +4 avg. flat betting). Great job Ellis!! Keep up the great work!
    Kindest Regards,

    Sound trivial?

    Consider this: That is all of our 3 million dollar winners averaged: 4 at the most!

    And they weren’t Flat Betting !

    Sooo, what John is actually saying is this:

    MvD can win a million dollars just flat betting.

    Yeah, yeah I know, it’s only ten shoes.

    But it’s early yet – I just gave John the MvD instructions

    and John is one of my most trusted testers. He’ll do more – a lot more.

    He’s hooked – just like my computer tester!

  146. AND, what BacMan said!

    This is a GREAT contribution! A safer way to get a running start. This will decrease hitting your stop loss while it will INCREASE your shoe win rate as well as your hit rate. I should have thought of this myself. Hey Carlos, How do you like THEM apples?

  147. From the Private MvD Forum:

    BtW, here is what 777 said about Optimum MvD³ Betting word for word:


    This is perfect! This is a great breakdown of Optimum MvD³ Betting. Thank You!


    You wanna get a taste of THAT!

  148. From the Private MvD forum:

    BTW, here is what 777 said about Optimum MvD³ Betting – word for word.


    This is perfect! This is a great breakdown of Optimal MvD³ betting. Thank You!


    YOU wanna get a taste of THAT!

  149. OK, I’m booked for Dec 28th so that date is official. In fact I’m booked for Dec 27th through Jan 2nd – leave very early Jan 2nd. I already have room mates for every night I’m there. I’m staying @ Flamingo but we can play anywhere. I’d like to take another look at Stadium Baccarat because I did real well last time.

    But also we nailed Caesars last trip and Flamingo the trip before last. And I’m in a nailing sort of mood. Don’t be surprised if we get to $1000 units. I’ve got my eye on a Hummer I’d like to get my greedy hands on.

    On the afternoon or maybe even in the morning on the 28th, I’ll do a seminar that includes a white board demonstration of MvD. play by play – exactly what to look at to determine EVERY play that can possibly come up plus that starting tweak we are talking about.

    But most of you already know HOW to play MvD from your manual if, in fact you got your manual. We screwed up on that by depending on a printing house. Never again. We now have our own high speed top notch printer and we will do our own mailings from now on.

    But by the time I’m finished, you will have no doubts about any play that can possibly come up.

    But the main thing I want to cover is MvD³ Betting. Nobody in the casino, including our best players even like way2fast and our other million dollar winners – nobody bets right.

    How you bet, often separate winners from losers. There is a time to flat bet. There are times for U1D2. There are times to base at 2. There are times to design your progression to match what is happening in the shoe at hand, and there are times for the money grabbing 3,4,5 progression.

    What exactly do you look at to determine MvD³ Optimum Betting for the shoe at hand? When do you go for +60 and when do you run like hell? What is your departure signal? What is a good re-entry signal? What is MvD³ Optimum Cash Management?

    When and how do you start your MvD³ million dollar Quest? What is a doable and safe MvD³ million dollar unit increase schedule?

    Look, one of you is going to be our next MvD³ million dollar winner. You need to know how the first three did it before we came up with MvD³ (which was 42 years in the making for me). I taught THEM! I can teach YOU. Nothing special about those guys – they just played to a million dollar Quest schedule. NOW WITH MvD³ So can YOU!

  150. Now with that said if i manage to get a win before losing 4 plays in a row then I simply just continue on betting MvD.

    Either way I win!
    BacMan B-)

  151. Hi everyone BacMan here
    Just been playing MvD³ optimum betting strategy and came up with a real safe and guaranteed method of getting a minimum 5+ units win rate per shoe.

    What I am doing is basically waiting till two events happen then I paper play (zero bet) MvD to start and if the shoe loses 4 bets in a row, then I just simply switch to Anti MvD betting strategy.

    This way I pretty much got all my bases covered and easily get 5+ on virtually every shoe played no matter what the casinos are dealing.

    BacMan B-)

  152. One of you called me politely and said that I failed to mention Carlos’s avg score for his 50 shoes. How could I forget such an important detail? It was 10.8 units per shoe.

    Another asked about the hit rate. Also very important. It was VERY high. But I’ll call Carlos and have him calculate the exact % once it is a decent hour to call.

  153. Hi mcvince. Ha, it might sound that way because we are limited in what we can say but MvD has nothing in common with LCNB or anything else we ever did.MvD is a whole new technique of playing that is dictated by history. A whole new playing concept.

    But I forewarn you, once you start – usually after the 2nd event completes, you bet every hand. I tell YOU this because you have a thing about betting every hand. The vast majority of players, including me, PREFER betting every hand and some casinos like Tunica MAKE you bet every hand once you start.

    I have to go with how the majority of players want to play. I learned that the hard way by trying to introduce MDB+. Very few are interested in a system that only bets occasionally. Plus it is illegal in some casinos like Tunica.

    I was motivated by how can we beat the cards we see TODAY – the shoes we see today generated by “factory preshuffled cards”. They are different and we have to play them differently – very differently. THAT is what MvD is about.

    Mcvince, I’d love to have you with this fastly growing MvD family. Great, but be prepared to bet every hand once you start. We will teach you MvD³ Optimum Betting which goes hand in hand with MvD. You squeeze the MOST out of a shoe while betting the least.

    But the MAIN advantage of MvD is that it is ONE SIMPLE way of playing TODAY’S cards. Today’s Players do not like complex multiple systems or trying to match the shoe with the right system. They want ONE SIMPLE way of playing that covers everything. MvD is the answer to Today’s game and Today’s players. Join us. MvD makes life so much easier.

  154. For those that are interested in your new system, how is it different from LCNB? Because your advertisements sound very similar to your LCNB advertisement that you posted on December 17th of last year.

  155. Good point Ed. Let’s ask the guys. I can’t do it the 2nd week of Jan but I could do it the first week.

    I need to be there Dec 29 leave Jan 3rd, – 5 nights.

    That gives us a 4 day choice for a seminar. Dec 30,31, Jan 1 or 2.

    Or, if need be I could come a day earlier or stay a day later which would also give us Dec 29 or Jan 3. I don’t have a room for either of those nights but I could bunk with one of you guys.

    So who would like to go and when?

  156. I’ll be in Vegas over New Years anyway. I have a Caesars high stakes play session lined up with a couple of our students. Yes, you can come in and watch or play with us. Caesars high stakes room is very accommodating that way. I’ll post the exact dates I’ll be playing at Caesars as soon as I know them. But I’ll fly in earlier so I can spend some time just with you guys.

    I’d very much like to do a training film but for now we need to keep this under raps – a white board demonstration of exactly how you play MvD – what you look at to decide each play, as well as what you look at to determine optimum betting.

    It SOUNDS complex to some when they see MvD in writing. But when you see it physically done on a white board you’ll quickly see how simple MvD actually is. And also how simple MvD Betting is.

    Then we will have plenty of time to go play together and make some money – anywhere you want to go. I’m the kind of player I like to go for the jugular whenever the opportunity arises. You’ll see!

  157. The Vegas location is a lot better than Niagara Falls. Why would you select the day after Christmas Day. It makes no sense. The Christmas Holidays are a horrible time to travel. The airfares and room rates are HIGHER during this time of year. The second week in January is a lot better time.

    Why not poll the members and get a consensus on what would be a better time?

    Ed Gil

  158. Hi everyone . Max here . Just recieved my Manual the other day after some mailing confusion . But things worked out after sending e-mails to CFC . Thank You CFC and the gang ….
    After a slow read of the Manual . And looking at the example . It TRULY is an EASY system to follow . Was quite suprised on How easy it was to read . And the definitions at the end of the manual for those who need them are quite clear .
    I would Strongly Recommend this to anyone interested in playing Baccarat .
    I have been going over some old casino shoes from an NOR casino and the results are Very positive . As for preshuffled . I have no input yet . But then again , this system is designed for them ….
    My nearest preshuffled casino is in Canada . And can’t wait to see what the results will be when i go there ..
    So if your serious about playing the baccarat game and making some money . My personal opinion whould be to purchase the Manual and learn it . Before stepping into any casino .
    Good Winnings To All …. Except the casino …… Max….

  159. MvD comprehension requirements:

    Reading Comprehension – 4th grade
    Mathematics Comprehension – 3rd grade
    Language: English would be nice but I have many students worldwide for whom English is their 3rd or 4th language. Therefore I included a diagram in your manual that spells out exactly how to play MvD no matter your language.

    Seeing the smiling faces of all my winning students once they realize at the Baccarat tables that they have just hit the mother lode of all Baccarat History: Priceless!!!

    And then there’s MasterCard: Just kidding we take PayPal and all other major credit cards as well:
    Ellis & CFC
    :wacko: :scratch: :mail: :good: :yahoo: :bye: B-)

  160. Hi miclus. Shoes that are all over the place with no consistent bias. That’s typical of “Factory Preshuffled Cards which are used today in nearly all casinos worldwide. MvD is designed to beat any kind of cards but especially “factory cards”.

    I put “preshuffled” in quotes because the fact is they are never shuffled at all. There is no table at card factories with a bunch of people shuffling cards, such a vision is ridiculous. Machines put cards in whatever card orders the casino specifies. I call those designer shoes. That is what we are up against today. And that is what MvD is designed to beat. We are fighting fire with fire.

    BTW, I don’t mean to imply that we won’t answer questions. We will answer any questions you have. That is what the forum is for.

    In the past, my approaches to the game, such as NOR, are complex – multiple systems with multiple modes. Such manuals bring many questions.

    MvD is ONE Simple, all hands technique (coined the Davis technique) that covers the entire spectrum of shoes we see TODAY. EVERYTHING that can possibly come up in a shoe is covered with ONE technique.

    It is different than anything you’ve ever seen before but it is simple common sense, Anybody can learn it in short order. Most of the very few questions I get have to do with terminology, you know, like:

    What is a ZZ run? or What is an Event?

    So, I’ll add a short Glossary Of Terms to the manual for beginners.

    With no questions, life will be pretty boring for me, so I guess I’ll go play.

    Hope to see you at the casino. Unlike most teachers, I play along side with my students all the time.

  161. Carlos has been my No. 1 Tester for 20 years because he plays high stakes tables exactly to the manual. He also knows the tricks of Optimum Betting which is fully detailed on the MvD forum which all MvD buyers have immediate access to.

    I gave Carlos a head start so that we could see early results of MvD play as soon as possible – especially MvD played with MvD Optimum Betting.

    Carlos says that hands down, MvD is my best work ever.

    Yes, we teach you that 345 trick he used on the MvD forum. It comes up more than you would think.

    I had a shoe just yesterday that got to +12 quickly with a 123 progression but then the player had to quit to keep from going below +10.

    I played his shoe with the 345. It lost 2 whole progressions in a row but still hit +40 W/O ever going negative.. It’s the best trick in the book and nobody else knows it – including the casinos.All of a sudden you’re seeing +50 and +60 shoes out of nowhere.

    Carlos had an early start but we will be seeing other Player Results shortly..

    For those interested I’m also having MvD computer tested in lots of 10,000 shoes. This tester has tested every Baccarat system ever created by me or anyone else.

    He called me the day before yesterday to tell me: “MvD is, BY FAR, the best system I’ve ever tested. It has the highest hit rate along with the lowest draw downs of any technique ever created.”

    I’ll post more news as it comes in.

    BTW, Carlos had NO questions. He was able to play MvD perfectly right out of the manual. Then he was able to apply MvD Optimum Betting from the MvD forum – again with no questions.

    The whole technique is so simple, so obvious and so common sense it leaves you with no questions that you can’t answer yourself.

    MvD is the technique all designers, including me, have been trying to come up with for the last 20 years – to no avail – until now! THEN, when you couple it with MvD Optimum Betting, you’ve got a tiger by the tail. You’ll soon see for yourself!

  162. Just confirmed my travel arrangements for November 24th so I will look forward to meeting up with fellow MvD members and enjoying the journey of our united quest at the baccarat tables.

    If we get six confirmed Mv and MvD³  Optimum Betting seminar attendees Ellis as well will be there to guide us.
    See you there,

  163. Hello and greetings
    Just in case we don’t confirm and follow through with the MvD Niagara seminar event this Novermber 26th, due to a lack of comfirmed attendees.

    I thought that as an alternative to doing the seminar we could arrange a casino live MvD players session in Niagara Fallsview Casino Resort the 26th of November anyways.

    Touted as one of the toughest Casinos in all of Canada to win at Baccarat due to their amazing abilities to pre shuffle decks.

    This would be a great test of truth on the strength of MvD to withstand even the toughest shoes that these casinos can muster up.

    This would not require any seminar or fees but it would be the responsibility for the MvD members who do choose this option to attend to cover their own travel and accommodation expenses.

    This way our MvD Private Members can see first hand how “The Davis Technique” is played out in a live casino event.

    Otherwise we could still do the MvD seminar with Ellis attending if we could meet the minimum attendance requirement for international events of 10 MvD students. (Off the record we would even hold the MvD seminar even if 6 students confirmed with their payments for the seminar as outlined in the MvD Seminar Syllabus posted back on September 6th, 2016)

    Let us know either way,
    Good fortunes to all,

  164. Hi Ellis,

    Received my MvD package. I haven’t completely read it yet. Traveling the journey is understandable so far.

    I wish to thank you for a wonderful gift. I am sure the rewards will be plentiful.


  165. For anyone who loves football as well.
    There will be a lot of fun and festivities that weekend because of the 104th Canadian Football League Grey Cup championship game (Canada’s version of the Superbowl) to be held just 1 1/2 hours north in Toronto, the day after (our proposed MvD seminar) on Sunday the 27th. Tickets for the game start out at only $89 Cdn ($67 USD).

    Check it out:

    Should be great. I know i will go to that game for sure. Shuttle buses to Toronto start at $25 Cdn ($19 USD)


  166. Enhanced driver’s license can be used only for surface transport and can not be used for air travel to Canada.

  167. Recognize that I will not be teaching MvD to anyone who has not purchased an MvD manual. This would not be fair to me or to purchasers. Therefore, your seminar price is:

    1.) Those who have purchased an MVD manual, your seminar price is $250.

    2.) Those in good standing on the CFC private forum but have not yet purchased their MvD manual their price is $250 for the manual plus $250 for the seminar.

    3.) Public members and non members: Your price is $1000 for private CFC membership plus $250 for your MvD manual plus $250 for the MvD seminar.

  168. If you plan on staying at Oakes Hotel . They do have an airport service on their web page for pick-up at the Buffalo airport . For those interested …

  169. I have learned that U.S. attendees can choose to get an “enhanced driver’s license” from their local MVD, hmm, (Motor Vehicle Dept.) instead of a passport.

    The Seminar is a shortcut way to learn MvD quickly, correctly and thoroughly. Most students grasp things better when they actually see them done, step by step on a score card rather than read about it.

    But your manual does not cover optimum betting for the shoe at hand, In fact I have never covered optimum betting before. How to bet the least amount and win the greatest amount.

    Even our most experienced players tend to go to a casino with a preconceived notion of how they are going to bet, Wrong!

    Two different players betting the same unit size can make their bet placements the same, in other words they both bet the same sides throughout the shoe. So they both end up with the same wins and losses. Yet one can end up winning twice as much as the other because his betting was more in tune with the shoe at hand.

    Optimum betting with MvD³ for the shoe at hand. THAT is what I want to teach you. It is a separate skill in itself and I have never taught it before. But I WILL be teaching it at this seminar – Along with exactly how to play MvD.

    Some can read their manual and know exactly how to play MvD. Others can read the same manual and still have no idea how to play it.

    BUT once they SEE it done play by play – ANYBODY and EVERYBODY can learn that way. That is the purpose of this seminar.

    And then we get the chance to play real games in real casinos in real time TOGETHER.

  170. Hello Sam
    I think you skipped over the details of the MvD potential seminar post.
    It reads that new Private Members will be paying $500 not $250 that you would pay for the seminar.

    That means they still have to become Private Members which at present costs $1,000 USD.

    So in total they will be paying $1,500 USD.

    Also this seminar is not being offered just to teach what is in the manual.

    If we hold this event then Ellis will have a white board demonstration on exactly how to Play MvD play by play. It is a very clear way to learn MvD quickly and correctly.

    The first half will be how to play MvD .

    The 2nd half will be the optimum way to bet MvD .

    Recognize that there is a different optimum way to bet each shoe you play. You need to know how to determine the optimum way of betting the shoe at hand.

    This event will be for all levels of Players and also enrolling non-members into our forum as private members and MvD Private Members…

    Using a live seminar setting whereas:

    1- Do live MvD seminars for $1,500.00 USD for Non-members & $500.00 USD for private members, MvD members get the workshop for $250.00 USD.

    2- Guarantee better success rates either through better understanding the table play after session from the live seminar.

    This offer also applies to already existing private members of Casino Forum Club as well, same deal on their renewal fee’s then the private members will get their MvD seminar rate of $500.00 which will include the MvD manual if they upgrade their Private Member status prior to the event taking place.

    Good Fortune to you,

  171. Way2fast, It was not a “test” shoe. It was a play by play example of every rule in MvD. As I said in plain English, I selected that shoe because every rule MvD has comes up in that one shoe. That is rare. It was a teaching tool. I don’t want members coming up with a situation in a shoe that was not fully covered in the manual.

    You are free to bet any progression you like with MvD. You like 2,3. I prefer U1D2 basing at 2. They are the same for the first 2 bets.

    But your 23 prog depends on you winning your second bets more often than you lose them. Otherwise you were better off flat betting.

    U1D2 B2 doesn’t care which bet you win. It is about avoiding a losing 6. Usually I never get to the 6. I seldom get to the 5.

    But when teaching, the 123 is the easiest for students to follow. As I’ve said a zillion times, it is not the best prog you could play. Perhaps the best is a 345 because you are only increasing at a third of a unit.

    The 456 comes in handy for betting $25 units on a $100 table.

    I don’t like 2 bet progressions. You only get 2 chances to win. I only use them when net betting. You are usually better off raising your unit and flat betting.

    For instance: You win a 2, win a 2, then lose a 23. You are down 1 even though you won half your bets. Whereas flat betting at a larger unit, you’d be even.

    To each his own.

  172. Hi Ellis, good to finally hear from you.

    I played the test shoe exactly how I just played this week in Vegas, as a couple of the guys there were able to observe. I am using certain SAP driven signals as well as short term setups. Normally don’t get so many bets, but the shoe was so perfect the setups just came one after another. I use a 1, 1.5 progression, expressed as a 2,3. Personally I would not use a 1,2,3 progression — having a 3 step progression where the largest bet is 300% of the base bet is just too big of a spread for me. Yes, the 1,2,3 will allow you to recover from some losing bets. But its just too common to lose three consecutive bets with a system which bets every hand, and being down 6 units from such a common event is, IMO, a plan destined to lose.

    The best indication of long term success isn’t the number of units won in your best shoes. It’s much more about how few shoes and units you lose. Also, the win rate and PA is a much better indicator as well. Get all of that working and you can control how much you make by just adjusting your unit size.

  173. Playing exactly to my NOR manual. OTB4L M3M3 3Hi scores +21 in Mode 3 for both ST and ZZ. if you play the right modes and if you start at play 6. That is exceptionally good – even better than F in that shoe.

    Starting at play 6, that shoe had 6 more Banks than Players and 4 more repeats than opposites. The avg PvB and OvR disparity is 8, making that shoe very normal. The only thing abnormal was high 3s. But I’ve certainly seen much higher.

    +21 with a Hi bet of 3. Great !
    if you know OTB4L and
    if you know how to get in the right modes and
    if you know how to recognize an OTB4L shoe by play 6 And
    if the game doesn’t change completely half way through..

    But now what are you going to play next shoe???

    Less that 1 out of 3 shoes are OTB4L shoes and even fewer stay OTB4L like this one did. Only lost the 123 prog once playing OTB4L in Mode 3.

    But to play NOR you need to know multiple systems and multiple modes and when to play which system in which mode. And you need regular cards. NOR seldom fares well against preshuffled and the whole casino world is changing to preshuffled meaning you need to learn even more systems. Very few players can hack that – certainly not our average member. Some actually have a life other than Baccarat. They want ONE system that does everything wherein once you start you play every hand. They don’t want to sit there and only bet now and than. Many casinos won’t even let you do that. Gold Strike for instance, where we mostly played last trip, you must bet EVERY hand. Same at Horseshoe.

    MvD is a far, far simpler approach because you learn ONE Simple technique you can play anytime anywhere that covers all shoe types and card types. You can learn the whole thing in an hour or 2. THAT is the way the vast majority of players want to play. AND they don’t like to bet more than 3. Many will never bet more than 2. MvD does better flat betting than anything I have ever designed.

    MvD could have scored +50 or +60 too had I played a 234 or a 345 prog. Big Whip! I played a 123 because it’s hard enough to get members to play even that mild prog.

    I don’t know what way2fast played to hit +45 but it sure as hell wasn’t a 123. I CAN do simple Arithmetic.Therefore it is not comparable. Apples to oranges.

    Like I said at the outset, I expect MvD to avg about +10. But you can make a million pretty quick averaging only +5 or even less. Norm made 2 million averaging +4. We hit +47 in that one very choppy shoe but ended up going back down to +40. But that’s a fluke. I didn’t even include it in our average score.

    Some are about to say Norm averaged +6. No he didn’t. He averaged +4. Norm was a fireman, not a mathematician. If you apply a mandatory 2 after all your 1 bets, your unit is 1.5 – not 1. At a 1.5 unit, Norm averaged +4. And THAT was good enough to get to 2 million in 2 years.

  174. Wow, that’s an interesting test shoe!! Black2bac pointed some amazing things about this shoe already. I would also add that almost any method of play will crush this — I only wish something like this would appear in a real casino.

    The way I played this past weekend generally wins 8-14 units per shoe. Sometimes I will quit with less to capture a win, and sometimes (rarely) the shoe is so good it delivers 20 units — even though I bet about 1 out of every 3-5 hands. If I could have played this test shoe in a casino, I would have won 32 units and quit after hand 48!!!! If I had played the whole shoe, I would have been at +45 (but I absolutely would have quit after hand 48). That’s with an 80% win rate and a PA of 64%. Unfortunately, the casinos know better than to give us a softball like this.

    Looking forward to hearing about test results from real time casino play.

  175. You created Luck out of thin air, which for me the word LUCK is more of an acronym really for:

    MvD is a technique vs a system. ~ “The Davis Technique”

    :wacko: :scratch: :mail: :good: :yahoo: :bye: B-)

  176. Ha, you’re funny Max!

    I’m jacked up too Danny and I want to get back to the tables with the clear cut rules.

    Very astute black2bac! Correct, it is a good F shoe if you see to switch from F3 to F2 at the right time. But we never know to make that particular switch. with F.

    A good F shoe makes for an even better MvD shoe because MvD will AUTOMATICALLY play F in an F shoe whether you realize it’s an F shoe or not. AND, MvD plays F shoes even better than we do.

    Just as you say, a shoe goes from F3 to F2: Nearly all F3 shoes have a mixture of 1’s and 2s on the weak side. Playing F3 we watch those 2s go by incurring 3 bets. MvD, given enough 2s on the weak side will automatically start hitting the bottom circle on some of those 2s, then right back to the Strong Side. So, in an F3 scenario MvD scores higher than F but with lower bets.

    By the same token, we get an S40 shoe, MvD automatically plays S40 but W/O modes. It automatically selects the best mode.

    The same with OTB4L or TB4L or Repeats. MvD automatically plays them and automatically switches from one to another as the shoe dictates.

    So it plays NOR better than we usually play it but it’s main strength is preshuffled cards.

    MvD is a true game changer. The old rules no longer apply.

    Black2bac, you should be particularly interested in this since you are surrounded with factory preshuffled cards casinos.

    So am I, very recently. So I had to design a new approach to deal with the new conditions I face. And I got lucky. MvD deals with everything automatically. All we need do is follow very simple rules.

    One simple approach that plays everything. That is what EVERYONE wants, including me.

    I thought that was impossible. I was wrong!

  177. Well, since I don’t know your rules, can’t tell how you got to +30……

    BUT…, here’s what I noticed about this test shoe:

    Among 2s —> 6 out of 7 occur on Player side
    among 3s —-> ALL 9 occur on Banker side!!

    Hence, F3 does well, achieving +18 by play #45,
    since there’s only a single 2 on Banker side, an appropriate switch to F2 at play #47 or play #61 will achieve +20 twice, eventually arriving at +24, where highest bet is 4.

    Typically a shoe this high in 3s is dreadful for SS (because of the frequent side-switch triggers), unless 2s happen to be very low, which is not the case here. But since all the 3s occur on one side, this is avery good SS/F3 shoe.

  178. Ok alright! I’m squared away on the Dot! I’m already jacked-up for MvD,and see where this will take me to solving the mystery of baccarat in the making! :mail:

  179. Thank you mcvince. I think CT70 is right. Everyone world-wide is going to factory cards. It is just a question of time. Fine, that is what MvD is especially designed to beat! – as well as everything else.

  180. CFC has the complete final MvD manual now including the Play by Play.
    Sent it in at 4AM this morning. This is my 15th manual since the early ’80’s. And it is the clearest manual I have ever written. Anybody can play MvD just from the manual. Everything you need to know is in there complete with examples.

  181. The touch games in AC are pre-shuffled. The no-touch ez-bacc games are run through the shuffle machines. Borgata cuts their decks to have two decks in the back as opposed to once deck like the other casinos.

  182. OK, I sent the complete MvD autographed Manual in to CFC. Buyers will receive a hard copy by registered mail directly from CFC. Now I have to get them the play by play which will be included with your manual. Had it all done by hand but I made a mistake and have to do it over. There was a sacrifice losing 1 after a ZZ run. I should have followed it with a 1 bet but I bet 2 by mistake. An that, right after I said in the manual “be careful of that mistake because it is easy to make. Damn, I guess I had to prove my point to myself.

    Anyway, if you want to fool around with the shoe I used it goes like this:

    B21311131 = 73 plays

    16 1’s
    7 2s
    9 3s
    3 4+

    In other words a fairly normal shoe except for the high 3s.

    That’s 40 Banks and 33 Players with an O/R count of -4.

    Starting at play 6, I played a simple 123 prog all the way because it started slow and I didn’t hit +12 until play 36. But I hit +30 on the last play. That’s pretty darn good for a 123 prog which usually struggles to get to +10.

    Try ANY system on it.

    I think my +30 is pretty safe.

    I picked this shoe because everything that CAN happen pretty much DID happen.

    So every MvD rule played a part. I played exactly to the rules and every single play was covered by the rules. You always knew your next play.

    Well, I worked all night last night so I better get a little sleep before I try doing the play by play again. But I’ll have it by morning. I do my best work in the middle of the night. EVERY play is FULLY explained on the same line as the play. You’ll like it. Play by plays are the BEST and surest way to teach Baccarat! Everybody gets it pretty quick.

    And to all you buyers – THANKS guys!

  183. This is for everyone …… You MUST request the NDA Form in a post OR an E-Mail to CFC… they will send the form in an E-mail … You must down load it and sent it back signed and dated… They will then send a Bill to be paid in a separate E-mail……
    Hope this speeds things up for everyone …..

  184. Right Pauld and Danny, and everyone – your Paypal acct or credit card acct, paypal line of credit or even a check if need be, as long as your dues are up to date. Right, we don’t have it set up on the order system just yet but we soon will and meanwhile, we will know what your payment is for.

    If you don’t know about paypal line of credit, check it out on paypal. It’s a good deal.

    If you can’t do it any other way, mail me a check or money order and I’ll put it through for you.

    But recognize that once I turn the manual in to CFC they can turn off the early bird special at any time.

    The manual should answer all questions. After all MvD is ONE technique, not multiple systems and it has no modes. It is pure simple once you get the hang of it. So I don’t expect questions. But I do expect comments and conversation so MvD will have its own private forum very shortly.

    Now, I must get back to work.

  185. Ellis/CFC – I don’t see a purchase option on your Products webpage. Please send me the NDA and I will get it taken care of back to you and buy. Thanks.

  186. Guys, First, I will have a COMPLETE MvD manual for you VERY shortly. Maybe today but by morning for sure. I’ll give it to CFC for distribution to all who have already bought or soon will. It contains a 73 play shoe with every single play fully but plainly explained. Most can learn the whole thing in an hour. But I implore you – Practice at home first. You’ll get everything down pat in just a shoe or two.

    By complete, I mean it gives you the optimum play for EVERYTHING that can come up in a shoe. You are never left sitting there pondering: Do I change modes? Do I change systems? You ALWAYS know your next play.

    MvD is a technique vs a system. ~ “The Davis Technique”

    While it is like nothing anyone has done before, it is NOT complex. You’ll soon see why MvD is calling every play the way it is – a true follow the shoe process that everyone has been trying to design for the last 20 years. Well, here it is!

  187. Hi Ellis,

    You don’t here from me much because, all I do is read the comments. As a 4D, SAP and Nor player your MvD technique appears to be the Holy Grail!


  188. Danny, and everyone: MvD is not a system in the way that we have come to know systems. A system is a way of following a predetermined bias like an Opposite or Repeat or TB4L or OTB4L or SS bias. But first you must correctly identify that bias and know which system applies

    MvD is a single and simple Follow the shoe technique that lands on ALL biases regardless whether you identify them or not. And it has no Modes. You need no prior experience. MvD lands on all biases as well as lack of bias AUTOMATICALLY, W/O you needing the skills to identify biases and matching them to multiple systems and Modes and betting strategies.

    You learn ONE simple technique instead of multiple systems. And that ONE technique closely follows all shoes regardless of bias or lack thereof. MvD automatically favors whatever the shoe favors – whatever all your counts favor and it does this automatically. MvD ALWAYS calls out your next bet for you – every single play. You become basically a spectator just physically placing the bets MvD calls for. You can bet any progression you want including flat betting.

    There is no casino defense for it. Even if they could figure out what we are doing – which I doubt, all they could do about it is design shoes that never follow history. But even if they did that, we would soon realize it, reverse rule 3, and win virtually every bet.

    MvD is a true Baccarat breakthrough like nothing anyone has ever done before.

    I’ll finish the MvD tester manual today which will get all 5 testers playing the same exact way every bet. That way we get reliable results and statistics. As soon as I get them going then the ball is in their court for a while giving me time to complete the Final Word Manual while awaiting their results.

    That should also satisfy black2bac’s comment.

    I can’t very well shelve MvD right now W/O getting the process of testing it underway. Virtually ALL Bac players want a SINGLE system that plays all card types and all shoe types. And they want it yesterday!

    I don’t expect testing to change much of anything. Nevertheless it is an established and necessary process demanded by all buyers.

  189. It’s hard to know if you’ll need something before you’ve actually learned what it is.

    Once everyone truly learns NOR, they can decide themselves if new systems will replace or enhance it!!

    Just my thought….

  190. where is the nda? ellis..i just want to make sure i understand..does learning mvd alone be enough to play consistently or will we need nor in some cases?

  191. What happened to our discussion of ANOR and the chapter-by-chapter content of The Final Word Manual. We weren’t even half-way there.

    Has this forum gone off the rails?

  192. MvD status update:

    The primary object of design is to have as few rules as possible.

    The secondary objective is to word those rules so simply that EVERYONE can follow them readily and W/O error.

    Rules aren’t final until 10 students can readily play the same shoe the exact same way W/O consulting each other and win. NOW you’ve got something!

    So OK, when we launched, I had a preliminary set of 3 simple casino proven rules that I sent to 5 testers. But then I could tell from the questions from the testers where the rules needed improvement and more simplified and explicit wording and examples. Plus, there were certain rare patterns that could come up for which there was no explicit rule.

    Well we still have only 3 rules but now they cover EVERYTHING that can happen.

    I’m in the process of making play by play examples. What exactly do I look at to determine each play from history? Each play has an arrow pointing back to its origin.

    When the testers have no more questions and are all playing the same exact way – and winning – after a hundred test shoes, we have all the ingredients for a short and sweet manual.

    Now, since we are talking about ONE, simple, 3 rule, modeless system rather than a team of systems, the manual can be short and sweet yet all-inclusive.

    I’ve got the rules and their wording figured out. I need to get them to the testers. That is likely to cause some additional changes in wording.

    Then we need 100 shoes all played exactly the same way. From there, I can complete the manual in 2 days.

    Yes, the MvD manual will be separate from the Final Word Manual. In other words MvD will have its own, short, stand alone, simplified manual totally separate from The Final Word Manual.

  193. Like seismic engineers are now discovering that based on the history of two MegaQuakes ie: Mexico City 25 years ago and then Chile 5 years ago…
    It’s been proven that the best survival rate for a building not to be destroyed was purely based on it’s structure vs it’s design.

    And the new designs that Architects were pushing onto the engineers to figure out how to create within the rules of engineering physics that were forcing less structure which made these modern buildings more vulnerable to earth quakes than the older designs that allow more structure than design.

    MvD is the structure of Baccarat while Nor, MDB+ are the designs that fit into the MvD structure that is totally interchangeable with what ever the shoe quake is calling for.

    Think of Ellis’ own analogy of viewing every approach as a arrow for your quiver but the Bow is the weapon the must be “TAUT” in order to hit the target bulls eye.

    Taut means tight rather than slack. The tightrope ought to be taut and not dangling down by the lion cage. It sounds like the word “taught” and means stretched tight, like a rope, muscles, or even nerves. It’s nice to have a taut body with tight muscles, but not so great to have a taut mind — tightly wound and tense.

    MvD is the weapon (The Bow) while NOR is the silver bullet or Arrow in your quiver…
    The structure…

    Get Ready the Big One is coming!!! :yahoo:

  194. MvD was born from the concept that History dictates the outcome of all events and it seems appropriate that we pre launch MvD on America’s most historic day, Columbus Day – which is a celebration of the discovery of a new world – Just as MvD is the discovery of a whole new approach to Baccarat.

    There is no such thing as “future history”. That is a contradiction of terms. So when we look to history to decide everything, it is INEVITABLE that we will be right most of the time. And THAT is the name of the game.

    History identifies and follows repetition.

    Think about it: shoe type is determined by repetition.
    A choppy shoe is mostly a repetition of Opposites.
    A streaky shoe is mostly a repetition of Repeats.
    An OTB4L shoe is mostly a repetition of 2’s and 3s and single or double 1’s.
    A TB4L shoe is a repetition of opposites along with a repetition of repeats.
    An SS shoe is a repetition of long events on one side and short events on the other.
    A random shoe is a repetition of the normal frequencies of occurrence.

    Is history always right? No, but it is USUALLY right and THAT is the name of the game – to usually be right. If you are USUALLY right, winning is INEVITABLE!

  195. Ha, still around Danny! But I got another offer – in fact two. So CFC assumed I would take one. It’s sorta like Baccarat. Never assume anything. Never bet W/O a solid reason. Been in this business 40 years so everybody that’s anybody in the gambling business knows me and considers me top dog. So when I come up with a whole new concept – a single simple system that plays all card types, they all want to be on that band wagon and they come out of the woodwork.Nobody has a single all inclusive approach like MvD but everyone WISHES they DID. But I’m still here.

  196. So MVD is a separate system apart from the final word? and would finally put an end to the many conflicting nuances one encounters in the use of NOR .That means that one can use this even without any background about NOR?Casino proof?.foolproof? Hope you could be honest to the point that you aren’t hyping this up .BTW,is Ellis still around?

  197. From a Tester:

    I know now for a fact that playing this game with MvD with up1/down2 on your progs is crazy amazing. I have been testing Ellis’ systems for many,many years now. I now know his latest discovery and invention of MvD is the best system I have ever played. Before then, nor was the way I played. With MvD I still beat the same shoes nor would beat but now MvD also in addition beats shoes nor could not beat. Ellis taught me himself NBJ blackjack 17 years ago. It is an amazing feeling having that predictive control. With MvD, I have those same feelings again knowing that at the baccarat table I am winning the next bet and trying to keep a straight face while laughing inside finding it so comical and seeing the faces of shock and disbelief on players and casino staff. I love it. NOR and MvD honestly is the very best way this game can be played same as NBJ is the very best way BJ game can be played.

    :whistle: :whistle: :whistle:

  198. BTW, for direct comparison purposes everything I said below is based on an up as you lose 123 prog. But I still think the optimum prog to work your way up to for MvD is 345. No, I don’t think you should start with 345. Start with 123 to protect your stop loss, then 234 briefly and, when all goes well, 345. It makes money twice as fast and you can afford to lose a 345 more often than a 123.

    What about the dreaded 4 bet?

    If I lose a 123 early, I’ll stop and take a look for what I should be playing. But if I lose a 123 mid shoe in a heretofore good shoe I’ll bet the 4 but now I’m betting U1D2 which is pretty darn safe and plows through most anything. In fact, we should call that prog “The Plow”.

    But if you hit +12 within the first 20 -25 plays, you have no business playing a 123. It is simple to advance to 234, then 345 but no higher, except for a 456 but only if you are playing quarters on a $100 table.

  199. All good questions and comments guys. As for a release date, I still have some i’s to dot and some t’s to cross and I’m awaiting results from 5 testers. BUT, we are talking about a very short manual here. Maybe 2 pages of instruction and maybe 15 played games with a couple play by plays. Maybe 6-8 weeks depending on how quickly I get tester results. But I’ve got good guys on it and I am getting a lot of feedback which I’m reacting to. The manual itself, I can do in 2 days but I need to insure that every sentence and nuance is always the best way to play.

    Meanwhile we have an early bird special right now at $250 only for up to date private members. This was requested by several members and I saw no reason not to go with it. Once released, the price could go anywhere.
    Max is right! You CAN increase your unit quicker and that is a very big deal!

    I say again, I think the “win a 1 before you bet 2” rule helps protect your very tight – 4 stop loss. But you are still going to hit it some 20 – 25% of the time.

    So your questions are what do you do then??? No, you don’t have to leave the table. As one of my testers pointed out just yesterday, it is usually a near perfect OTB4L shoe.

    And when I checked this out, he was right. MvD does not like all different event lengths such as P12324113 etc. But OTB4L M3 M3 loves this shoe type and you win every 123 prog.

    So when I hit my MvD stop loss the FIRST thing I’ll look at is how would OTB4L be doing??? Often it’s perfect OTB4L!

    That tester hasn’t seen it yet but there is another shoe type MvD doesn’t like: runs following runs but all different length events such as 2435126.

    Well, that wasn’t such a good example because MVD is at +9 with a lowest point of +1 which is great for 23 plays. However, straight Repeats is at +15!

    My point is, the 2nd thing I’d look for upon hitting my MvD stop loss is how would straight Repeats be doing.

    It’s nearly always one or the other.

    Another tester hit his MvD stop loss, waited a while and reentered the shoe with MvD and hit +11 overall.

    For those reasons I’ll also put OTB4L and Repeats in the MvD manual for those who only buy the MvD manual.

    But the best equipped player will have BOTH manuals. And the more arrows in your quiver…..

    But I must give the Final Word Manual priority because I owe it to so many members and that manual is MUCH longer.

    Which brings up a question I have that maybe Mcvince could answer:

    What kind of cards is A.C. now using, factory preshuffled or regular??? Last time I was there they were still using regular but now, nearly all casinos have switched. How about AC???

  200. Hi Ellis . very INTERESTING … You could even change you bet level sooner . Say between 15 to 20 points instead of a 30-point . Because of the lower stop loss …..
    Also . If you hit your stop loss early in the shoe . Would it be feasible to restart this technique from your stop loss point … The reason I ask is the smaller casinos only have one table open for hours on end . And that might be the only time to play for some people …

  201. Ha, Danny, no, MvD has no similarities whatsoever with ANYTHING we have ever done before. The name is a Roman Numeral that stands for a player’s personal gain and accomplishment.

    When you see it, you will realize that it is a very obvious and calming way of playing. No more white knuckle baccarat. I failed to mention that MvD is also an excellent candidate for flat betting because it has a very strong tendency to win the majority of the bets and get you well ahead at some point in the shoe.

    It is also casino proof. There is only one tactic they could deploy IF they ever figure out what you are doing. But we already have the counter tactic for that. We simply reverse rule 3 and take full advantage of their tactic.

    So, could a player come up with this on his own? Sure, but it took me 40 years.

  202. Hi prof! welcome back! what does MvD stand for? No more table,system,Mode selection,OR count etc..really? Or is this another modified version of RD1 /LCNB that eventually met it’s nemesis one day and boom! became obsolete as the casino always finds ways to defeat different systems in the end.thanks if you can clear that out.

  203. And don’t forget about Tunica, MS. – centrally located in the U.S. and very convenient. You fly into Memphis where all the casinos have free bus service.

    Several of our members have gone to every seminar I have conducted. Most find it the easiest and quickest way to thoroughly learn the systems, first with a blackboard demonstration and then by practical application in the casinos.

    Tote board reading, table and system selection are very popular seminar subjects. Teaching and learning are much easier and quicker when you actually see it in a live action setting physically done rather than just reading about it, that way the student gets both a theoretical and practical perspective on the teachings for the day.

    Then attendees are offered the option of copying my play in the casinos as well, after I have selected the table, the system and I’m always looking for Exploit situations.- Cash cows!

  204. So, I was talking to my old playing partner, Ann, last night. I told her I wrote a post to site beginners about how to exploit these two shoe types. And I mentioned I wanted to teach this trick First.

    Her reply was: “Oh yeah, we’ve done that thousands of times. That is the first thing I learned. Most challenges in life you have to start at the bottom and work your way up. Baccarat is the only challenge where you might as well start at the top and work you way down. Exploiting is the first thing I learned because it is so simple yet it makes the most money. We’d win 40 or 50 units while everyone else at the table lost their shirts.”

    Guys, this trick is easy to learn and the right conditions for it come up all the time. We see -4 O/R very frequently. Hell, we even see -20. That’s 80 units for sure! You’ll soon see for yourself.

  205. Hi Danny, I wish I did, I’d tell you but being from Arkansas I’m even less welcome to online casinos and gave up trying to get on. But I recall the guys discussing one with multiple games to choose from. And given the popularity of stadium Bac, I’m thinking we will soon have more.

    Does anyone else know of any live on line casinos that offer multiple tables to choose from?

    I’ll make some calls Danny.

  206. DO you happened to know ellis which live stream casino would you recommend coz I search hard for the kind of live casino you’re describing let alone,that being a US Citizen not welcome to these online sites.

  207. Hi julianto and welcome to the forum!

    In a word, yes, our systems do well on line if you choose the right on line casino.

    The biggest advantage we have in a real casino is Table Selection. We ALWAYS select the most biased table in the casino and then play the system to beat that bias because that is the surest way to win the most money.

    Casinos have 4 basic biases in their strategy. We have a different system for each bias. We teach you tote board reading, bias identification and system selection. We deploy their own strategy against them. THAT is how we win.

    You don’t want to give up your main advantage just because you are playing on line. Therefore select a live game on line casino that has a choice of multiple tables tracked by tote board.

    But first, of course, you need to learn how to play. We will be happy to teach you. ‘

  208. hi from Indonesia..dan I just entered into a new member here..i’m eager to learn about the system and your knowledge of the game baccarat..i playing baccarat is almost 4 years.. most always lose and defeat..i’ve almost made it my business broke up now…i’m playing baccarat instead not directly to the Casino but I play on the online casino website at sbo..all l want to ask whether your system can be used in online casino?..thank you

  209. This is for the all the visitors to the Public Forum and potential Private Forum members : I an going to tell you my story that may help you in in your decision making . My late grandfather who was a semi pro gambler ( very successful one ) in the western United States during Roaring Twenties and through all the time of the Great Depression , introduced me at 4 years old to the poker and gambling in general i was hooked and he made sure to teach me everything that he learned in his long career , poker of course but also Psychology , Meditation, Math , People study and observation ,Yoga ,Self confidence, Independent thinking , Hard work always , Taking ownership of your mistakes and never making same mistake again and the two of the most important , one : made sure that in your chosen endeavor that you learn something new every single day of your life and learn from the most successful people in your field if you want success for yourself ( Ellis in the field of Baccarat ) and two : for me one of the most important thing was and is mastering the Bullshit Meter ! I can spot the Scammers , Cheats , Crooks and Lie rs from miles away and i do not suffer fools at all !
    I was reading Dave’s website Imspirit among articles was one
    ” Law of the small numbers ” this current article carry a few posts by Ellis but at the time that i was reading there was a lot pasts by Ellis , based on my lifetime spent in gambling on both sides of the table as a player and the operator , I knew that this person called Ellis was the only person that knew what he was talking about ! In one other post there is a picture of Ellis , this is how Ellis appear on my radar screen !
    Fast forward I am teaching a new player game of Baccarat at Gold Coast casino in Vegas when i noticed Ellis with two other people sat on the same table to play , I waited for the shoe to finish and I introduced myself to Ellis , he wanted to eat so we went to the TGIF restaurant , four hours of talking Baccarat i knew w/o a doubt that Ellis is real article and the only person so far that i met to know more about Baccarat then i did !
    For the first time in my life I paid somebody to join their forum and that was a good decision on my part , CFC is by far the best place in the world to study the game of Baccarat , if any one of you know of the better place to study Baccarat anywhere let me know I will be there in a New York minute , regardless of the cost ! Ellis is the best teacher in the world ( very important ) and my hope for CFC Private Members. some of whom are very smart and accomplished in their own right is to put in genuine effort to co operate , share , network and to make CFC the best thing that ever that happened to the game of Baccarat ever .
    I for one am very happy to play my part in this mission , and in time we will all be proud to be part of something that is bigger then most of us ! Synergy rules ! Nickster

  210. Thank you nickster! Folks, nickster is a long time contributing member. He was highly instrumental in the development of our Secret Weapon and I thank him for that!.

    My point here is that our members are always invited to contribute and they DO!

    We share information with each other constantly such as which casinos are the most vulnerable right now and with which system.

    Casinos are strong because they share information with each other. They are a network. They know how to beat the players through networking and their profits indicate they are extremely successful because their profits are ten times the actual table odds of the game.

    To beat them we MUST have a player network. We are the only player network there is. We have 150 players sharing information – keeping everyone informed
    about casino vulnerabilities.

    For instance: Stadium Baccarat is the rage right now. We will see more and more of it. But it is very vulnerable to one of our simplest basic systems.

    I know how to beat it and proved that fact winning 20 shoes in a row at an average score of 20 units per shoe. Exactly how I did that is posted on the private forum. ANYONE can do that now just sticking to one of our most basic systems that soundly defeats this stadium set up.

    So, will the casinos change the setup. NO, because we are the ONLY players who know how to beat it and we are a tiny negligible fraction of the total players.

    So how much money is 20 shoes at 20 units a shoe? $40,000 @ $100 units.

    Just starting out at $25 units? $10,000.

    And what is our tuition? $1000.

    How long did it take me? 2 days.

    How long will it take you to learn this system? Maybe an hour.

    What are the chances of teaching yourself?

    ZERO! Nobody else ever has!

    One of our members told me about this Stadium set up through our information sharing forum set up.

    I checked it out for a day and confirmed its vulnerability. That’s What I do. That’s what we ALL learn to do.

    Then I simply played that one simple system for 2 days. It was like manna from heaven! That’s what we do. We are a team!

    Join our team! It pays for itself.

    The average player, no matter how hard he tries, loses at the rate of 25% even though the table odds are 50/50 plus commission.

    The game is rigged!

    But we use the casino’s rigging against them.

    THAT is how we win!

    Join the team! It pays for itself quickly.

    Then it pays YOU!

    Then it pays you big time. 3 millionaires so far.

    But I want more – a lot more!

  211. Ellis and the guys,thank you for your kind words,couple weeks ago I spent a week in Vegas playing only imperial baccarat tables ( before it was called Stadium baccarat ) at the Palazzo and Venetian casinos , for me it is a great way to play baccarat , you can play four tables at the same time, for the people who have not played there min bet is $5 max bet is $1.35 million , biggest regular baccarat bet spread in any casino that i know about. On the plane going to Vegas , my goal was to develop the one progression that covers this bet spread the best so I can concentrate on all the info that always put me on the best table out of the four tables. I decided on the Secret Weapon ! With which one can play min $5 or the absolute maximum $1.35
    million ! I tested many progressions , but found the Secret Weapon best by far ! This is the universal progression that always stay the same for any $ level of the game from min to max bets and any bet in between ! All you have to decide is amount of money that you want to play with , which you then plug into the Secret Weapon ! I have found that using the Secret Weapon is the best and safest way you can play baccarat !
    This Secret Weapon is so powerful it’s insane ! Ellis , the Secret Weapon is much more powerful then Norm’s 1 — 2 loop prog ,
    we all know that Norm made over 2 million playing 1 — 2 loop prog , imagine what he would have made if he was playing our Secret Weapon ???
    Guys I am a life long student of the game of baccarat ( it’s my passion ) I can honestly tell you that Ellis is the first person that I met in my life that knew more about baccarat then i did , that’s why i am here at CFC. Guys we are very lucky , because in Ellis we have the best baccarat teacher in the world !
    Let’s keep the forum positive , work together and co-operate , we are entering into a Golden Age of Baccarat and the Secret Weapon is big part of it ! Synergy rules ! Nickster

  212. To answer Ed Gil’s question; SS is only one of eight systems fully taught in The Final Word Manual. But SS is what we call a “stand alone” system. You can win at Baccarat with just that one approach. The idea is to First get you winning consistently. Then we work on improving your performance through system selection guided by the tote board.

    I am posting the final word manual and teaching it chapter by chapter on the private forum right now as we speak And I’m answering all questions as we go.

    BTW, there is no such thing as a dumb question – not on MY forum. Everyone gets my full attention. ANYONE who wants to can learn to beat this game consistently. Then , with our secret weapon, you can win big time.


    Well there is one other important ingredient you will get right off the bat. We call it our SECRET WEAPON. It is a very recent discovery brought about by member participation.The fact is 100 heads are better than one. We pooled our experience to come up with our secrete weapon. NOBODY ELSE KNOWS IT! The only place you will ever see it is right here in the private forum.The casinos have never seen it and have no defense for it, yet it is perfectly legal. It is a mathematical trick that drastically increases our wins while decreasing our risk. While highly mathematical it is very easy to learn. We will show you casino shoes on score cards played both with and without our secret weapon so you can see for yourself the effect it has on your score. We are talking drastic effect that can double or even triple your win while reducing your risk. ANYBODY can learn it in a matter of minutes and it can be used with any system including SS. With our secret weapon you will first achieve your first 100 unit day and next, your first 100 unit shoe all while decreasing your risk. I realize that sounds impossible but you will soon see it in action for yourself – actual casino shoes fully played out on score cards. A simple mathematical trick anybody can perform that nobody else knows even that it exists but US.

  214. What is the difference between the Final Word Manual and the SS system? With you working on the SS system delay the Final Word Manual?

    Ed Gil

  215. Hello everyone, just a quick comment about this new site. I’ve known Ellis since
    1992 NBJ, WCB, and all the BAC systems. I realize there is a lot of BS on the web. Well you have landed on a site that is no BS. This is not a scam. Ellis is the most prolific player and teacher there is. If you want to become a real player
    there is no other place to be. Your money will be well spent. If you are not afraid to put some time in and learn what’s in the private forum you will not be disappointed. Anyone that wants to learn this stuff can do this. There is a ton of practical info here. I’m not talking about statistics and data bases, that stuff is not trying to beat you. THE CASINO IS! You get real world training here not some statistics that tell you to bet one hand for a whole shoe. Here are just a few things you will learn. Tote board reading, game selection, system selection, progression selection. No one is teaching this stuff but Ellis. Anyway thanks for your attention.
    Thanks, Brian.

  216. Testimonials on the Private Membership:

    Private Member


    Thanks for correcting my transcription error on shoe #5 as it did throw MY SAP count off.
    I can’t figure out how to correct anything other than my most recent post.

    The idea of flat betting RSAP shoes by increasing the value of the base unit looks very promising. Can’t wait to try it in battle. Demonstrating how it achieved the same as betting a 1,2,4 progression was very enlightening. Seems obvious in hindsight but I never would have thought of it. Thanks and kudos.

    This shoe #5 was very rich in interpretation in that it could be beaten with SAP and raw data. Also shows the overlap in the betting constructs in that different systems could win in this shoe.

    SAP points in the direction of RSAP. While just looking at the raw data of the shoe and seeing that there are no 5s STR or ZZ points you in the direction of OT M3M3. Both are winning paradigms here.

    It can’t be overestimated the importance of knowing the nemesis of the applicable different modes. For me it was only after learning this as second nature did many of Ellis’s teachings start to sink in.

    S40 MODE 2 hates 3s.
    S40 MODE 3 hates 4s.
    OT MODE 2 hates 4s.
    OT MODE 3 hates 5s.

    Mentally I call it looking for the 3,4,5. If I look at SAP or a shoe and see no or low –
    – 3s then I know I should be playing S40 M2.
    – 4s then I know I should be playing S40 M3.
    – 4s then I know I should be playing OT M2. Evaluate STR and ZZ separately.
    – 5s then I know I should be playing OT M3. Evaluate STR and ZZ separately.
    As 4s is used by both S40 and OT. The deciding factor is the number and spacing of 1s (3ZZ or 4ZZ+). If these are high you use S40, low then OT.

    The inverse is equally true. High 1,2s is S40 while high 2,3s is OT.

    The second thing I learned from Ellis was that the amount of your bet should equal the quality of the shoe. If you have a consistent bias increase the dollar amount of your progression. If there is a weak bias bet the minimum or even better just sit out. Why fight a hard shoe when you can win with an easy shoe?

    Aurelius ?

    May 11, 2016 at 5:38 am #3200
    Profile photo of mcvince
    Private Member

    Mr. Aurelius,

    Very good post. Although I haven’t seen any of your posts until this week I can say you present good information.

    I think that information needs to be tailored to the individual’s style of play. I for one don’t like betting every hand and use SAP to gauge my bet ONLY when I feel that the time is right. I for one have seen very few shoes that can maintain the endurance to bet one style. It is the ability to adapt that separates the good player from the great player. That is why for me, I try to stay away with trying to bet every hand. If I am up 3-5 units per shoe, I am happy. The key is to bet higher units. When Ellis created MDB he said, “If you want to win 5 units and win big then you need to bet big”.

    I think the SAP count is the best thing that Ellis created. Not only does it show the theme of the shoe for the guys that want to bet every/most every hand, there are things that SAP will show you that happen 99.99% of the time in every shoe. It doesn’t matter if it is an S40, OTB4L, TB4L etc. Certain things happen all the time or almost every time (99.99%). If guys can figure that out and either wait until those opportunities occur OR bet larger units (not if) but WHEN those opportunities occur you can do some serious damage. Your journey should be to find out what WILL happen as opposed to what will probably happen.

    Focus your attention on what will happen as opposed to what may happen.

  217. The word that immediately comes to mind is Triage:

    Applied to Baccarat wherein Ellis’ is like our Baccarat Doctor who is constantly having to deal with different students in one of three ways like a War Physician on the field of battle ie: The Casinos:

    Student #1:

    Send them to a Gambling recovery centre as their last hope otherwise just send them a priest.

    An Introduction to the Problem Gambling Self-Help Tools Website via YouTube

    Student #2:

    Help them to learn simple Money Management Strategies Ie: Stop Win and Stop Loss techniques that will better prepare them from those disastrous days at the Casinos.

    Student #3:

    These are the devoted ones who are already winning by mastering the art of money management techniques and are now focusing on becoming highly skilled Players not Gamblers:

    Let me redefine those last two terms:


    A gambler is someone who wins once in a while but over the long run consistently loses more than they win. The Casinos thrive on these dumb asses in order to pay their bills! It’s a known Mathematical Fact that the Casinos bank on to survive.


    A highly skilled Player is someone who loses once in a while but over the long run wins more than they lose.

    Whilst a gambler is labeled a consistent loser The highly skilled Player is labeled as a student of the game.

    We are like kryptonite for all Casinos and are revered and feared by them as well. Why because the longer we stay playing the game the more we win!

    The definition of kryptonite is Superman’s ultimate weakness, or anything that causes someone’s ultimate weakness. An example of kryptonite is the one food a person is seriously allergic to.


    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
    This article is about the concept of triage as it occurs in medical emergencies and disasters. For other uses, see Triage (disambiguation).

    Triage station at the Pentagon after the impact of American Airlines Flight 77 during the September 11, 2001 attacks.
    Triage (“>/?tri????/ or /tri?????/) is the process of determining the priority of patients’ treatments based on the severity of their condition. This rations patient treatment efficiently when resources are insufficient for all to be treated immediately. The term comes from the French verb trier, meaning to separate, sift or select.[1] Triage may result in determining the order and priority of emergency treatment, the order and priority of emergency transport, or the transport destination for the patient.

    Triage may also be used for patients arriving at the emergency department, or telephoning medical advice systems,[2] among others. This article deals with the concept of triage as it occurs in medical emergencies, including the prehospital setting, disasters, and emergency room treatment.

  218. Here’s a testimonial from one of our most recent new Private Members:
    May 2, 2016 at 8:11 am #3104
    Profile photo of aizman

    Hi All,

    Just want to say that I’ve never thought it possible to win consistently at the casino, until I learnt of things like NOR, MDB, SAP, RSAP, F2, F3, etc. There is actually a system here for every kind of shoe that the casino can throw at you. Streaks, Chops, Random… all have their nemesis!

    For the first time, I think is possible to actually win more than you lose at the casino!

    The trick, I think, is to know when to use which system, when to enter a shoe, and when to quit. These are the things I’m hoping to master one day.

    For now, I’m learning as much as I could of LCNB, RSAP, flat-betting, etc., that were already posted in the Private Forum, and explained in details by Ellis. The discussions by forum members help a lot too.

    The other systems are still sitting in Ellis’ head, so I’m really looking forward to the rest of The Final Word’s content.

    When completed, it would be the baccarat player’s holy book!

    Cheers! :yahoo:

  219. Well OK except for one thing:

    I’ve never used an ATM in my life and never will!

    NEVER give yourself an excuse to lose.

    “It’s OK if I lose this shoe – I’ll just go to the ATM.”

    Is the same as saying:

    “I’ll be right there Honey as soon as I lose these chips.”

    Give yourself an excuse to lose and you WILL lose.

    Force yourself to win and you WILL win.

    If you don’t get this you need to watch the movie “The Hustler” one more time. You missed the whole point of the movie.

  220. For instance, I just sent you a typical casino shoe from 2 days ago.

    It is a TB4L shoe.

    If you flat bet you win 3 units meaning that TB4L wins 3 more bets than it loses.

    If you bet a 1,2 prog with the same TB4L bet placements your score becomes ZERO because the darn shoe actually loses most of its 2 bets.

    But if you note that the shoe wins more first bets than it loses and therefore bet 3456 U1D2, you win 30 units! AND your highest bet is only twice your lowest bet – just as it was with a 1,2 prog that didn’t win anything.

    Half of Baccarat is knowing which side to bet. But the other half is knowing which progression is optimum for the shoe at hand. This is an extremely important task. That is why we now leave it up to your SAP count. The higher the SAP disparity the more aggressive you can afford to be.

  221. Well, as I thought I clearly demonstrated before, flat betting only helps you if you lose. If you win, a prog wins more than flat betting every time.

    I’ve met thousands of players over the years but I have yet to meet a flat bettor who is ahead regardless whether Bac or BJ.

    That is why I have been teaching for 30 years both for BJ and Bac to bet the RIGHT progression for the system you are playing and the hit rate you are achieving paying particular attention to which bet you are winning the most: the first, the 2nd or the third.

    If you are winning the first bet the most a 345 makes far more sense than a 123 and also carries less risk than a 123. Lose a 123 and you are 6 first bets down. You can’t recover from -6 with 1 bets. Lose a 345 and you are only down 4 first bets. MUCH easier to recover.

    For instance playing Third Base NBJ we strongly tend to win our 2nd bets so a 146 makes perfect sense. We put the emphasis on our 2nd bets.

    See, in Bac when we bet a 123 we have no idea of which bet we will win. We are merely betting we will win 1 out of 3 when the table odds are 1 out of 2.

    But as soon as you say bet 2 units at strategic points you have to identify those strategic points. So far, nobody in the 400 year history of Baccarat has ever been able to do that. If you CAN, you don’t belong with us mere mortals. You should be a billionaire by now.

    I think the best use of a 2 bet is when you have a high hit rate on your first bets, base at 2 or even 3 instead of 1. For instance betting Repeats in a streaky shoe. You are still not identifying which bets you are going to win. That is impossible. But you ARE noting that you are winning the majority of your first bets. And that fact is exploitable!

    However there is ONE situation where I think flat betting makes good sense:

    When you are having a good day playing MDB+ against new preshuffled cards. Our records show that we enjoy about a 57% hit rate in that situation – the highest hit rate in the history of gaming.

    In that case I think our best move is TO DOUBLE OUR UNIT and flat bet.

    Think about it. We are not betting very often at all and we are averaging about 6 units a shoe. Why bet a 124??? If we lose the prog we just lost a shoe instead of only 3 1 bets. We lose 3 1 bets in most every shoe but we win about 9. If you simply flat bet at 1 with a 57% hit rate you CAN’T lose overall. But if you flat bet, you CAN double your base unit a lot more often. The ONLY way you can lose is to bet a prog. So why would you???

  222. Thanks for your comment on our invitation to the “Private Baccarat Strategies” lounge included on our Private Membership forum:

    We are not just about making people like you Millionaires, more so than that, we are helping players from all walks of life to improve their lifestyles while winning more money at the Baccarat Tables and having fun with it. Sorry if this type of fun doesn’t appeal to someone as serious as you.

    But if you want to act like a Pro Baccarat Player then I suggest you open your wallet with the Million Dollars in it that you claimed to have won off of Ellis’ teachings in Baccarat and pull out enough to cover your Private Membership fee like all the rest of us Private Members did.

    And give a little back to your source of Baccarat success through Ellis. Then you can learn from some of the best players in the World sharing in their questions and answers to this great game of Baccarat.

    It’s really too bad that you don’t fully understand what’s really going on with Casino Forum Club and Ellis’ systems of superior play in this very complex game. We would love to have you on board with us.

    I would suggest your check yourself John on that and follow your own choice words of “More Ellis and less strange comments by CFC”…

    “Be Grateful and trade your expectation for appreciation and the world changes instantly – Anthony Robbins” B-)

  223. Wow, bizarre posts here recently. It is still a baccarat site, right?

    Let me offer a marketing tip:

    more Ellis,
    less strange CFC posts :good:

    Osmosis? WTF?

    Good luck to all :bye:

  224. Yes your so right, like this one guy who joins the forum then wants you to teach him everything on how to win in one shoe while your playing the shoe, then gets pissie when you tell him later after the shoe is over.

    Then there’s the player that wants to bet on your spot, then this big black arm slides across your ear as they lean over you like a big tree (talk about the lights going out in Georgia) and puts their bet down and they look at you like it’s a good thing.

    Now if that ain’t back luck let’s talk about a black cat crossing your path LOL.

    There’s usually a whole clan with a tan of them doing this and the only time the pit boss will put a stop to this is if the players are winning.

    Then there’s the Asian’s that look at you to make sure your not one of them, then coughs on you.

    You should see them look when you cough back on them, they get the message real quick.

    Even had a Chinese martial artist tell me to come outside, so i said lets go and as he’s doing his stretches. while i went for the door all his pussy ass buddies piled on him and told him not to go.

    Damn, i was looking forward to this but instead went back to playing and he never came near me after that.

    We got along fine after that. No respect, i could go on and on.

    It seem’s nobody want’s to see you win day after day, not just the dealers and pit bosses, they seem more cool about it compared to some players.

    It doesn’t matter how much you win, they know you still have the same bankroll you started with a while back.

    It could be a dollar a day and you would be in the 2% club or is it the 1%.

    NO RESPECT :yahoo:

  225. I remember those double scotch days with distant fondness.

    I don’t tolerate ANYONE talking to me during the game whether BJ or Bac. No One!

    I always keep a dollar bill on the table so I can accept my bottle of water or cup of coffee from the waitress W/O talking to her. They learn quick! Don’t talk to this guy when he’s playing. The other players get the idea too.

    If anyone does try to talk to me I simply say in a stern voice: “After the shoe!” – if I don’t ignore them altogether.

    Look, you can’t talk and play at the same time. You miss too much! Do one or the other but never both at the same time.

    No touch Bac averages one hand every 50 seconds. Sure, there is plenty of time to talk – just don’t do it.

    When I play Baccarat I know how many of each event has transpired thus far. I also know which the shoe is favoring: Opposites or Repeats and by exactly how much. That took 5 seconds to write my 5 count numbers on my score card.
    I also know exactly where the system I’m playing stands.

    But I’m constantly mentally overlaying other systems on my card to see where they stand so I know if I should switch systems.

    For instance: Maybe I’m playing TB4L. But I’m ALWAYS also tracking straight Repeats. Maybe TB4L is at +7 where Repeats is as + 9. I know to switch. But not if somebody is talking to me meanwhile. See that?

    So two things:

    1.) Never talk to anyone while they are playing. That’s simply good gambling etiquette.

    2.) Never let anyone talk to you when you are playing.

    BECAUSE: when you are talking, you are not playing – at least, not at your best.

  226. I realize that some of you are thinking that you can glean enough information from the public forum to play successfully. Believe you me, I’m very careful about what I post to the public. I just want to get across to you the idea that this game can be played professionally for a living once you know exactly HOW to play. I’m not giving you near enough information here to play successfully. But I do, both in the Final Word Manual as well as on the private forum.

    So lets have another example:

    I’ve already explained why early morning shoes are usually the easiest to play.

    But your biggest money making shoes occur at night.

    So lets suppose we came down after dinner at about 8 or 9 PM.

    The SAP count at our table is 1 4 4 12 – quite common given the age of the cards.

    So OK, what does that SAP count alone tell me?


    First, I know I’m in a very good high money making shoe!

    I’m very likely playing regular cards that started out in 8 sealed decks.

    I know to bet Repeats only!

    I know to bet our Exploit progression.

    Now I add the O/R count information.

    Together the 2 counts tell me exactly what events have occurred in this shoe thus far as well as exactly what play # the game is at: The next play is play #22.

    There has been one 1 in a row, two 2 iars, one 3 iar, 2 4 iars and 1 5iar.

    I also know there have been 8 more Repeats than Opposites.

    While the order of these events is not of great importance to the score,
    it does tell me which play to start my play.

    And, I know the exact order of these 7 events both from the tote board and from my score card.

    The fact is, just from the 4 SAP numbers plus the one O/R count number I know everything there is to know about this shoe, where to start, which system to play and what progression to bet.

    And I can guarantee you that I’m the ONLY player at the table that knows ALL this information. I don’t care if the other players have 20 years of experience. They DON’T know what I know.

    Well, if it was my first shoe of the night so that I’m a little hesitant on my betting I would have started at play 7 with our basic progression and my score at play 21 would be +11 with a highest bet of 2. I’m going for an easy +20.

    However let’s say it was my 3rd or 4th shoe. OK, in that case I already know I’m at a streaky table and I would have started at play 2 with our exploit progression.

    Now my highest bet was 3 and my score is already +22 a quarter of the way through the shoe. I’m going for at least +40…more likely +50!

    Meanwhile, what are the amateurs doing? Well 1’s are way behind so they are likely betting that 1’s will catch up. So far, they have won ONE bet. No wonder they lose so spectacularly.

    I’ve lost 6 bets (all 1 bets). But I have won 14.

    So, are you beginning to see how a PRO plays vs a 20 year amateur ?

    How the game can be beat by anyone who knows how to get ALL the information and bet WITH the mathematical odds every play.

    Look, the game odds are 50/50. You could flip a coin and win half the bets. In fact the other players would be a whole lot better off just flipping a coin. Published casino profit rates prove that beyond all doubt.

    Anybody can get to 50% hit rate yet very few DO.

    But it takes information plus the skill of how best to apply that information to get ABOVE 50%. That’s where I come in.

    So, using all the information available, what was my hit rate that shoe? 70%.

    What was theirs? Very likely less than 50%.

    Virtually nobody averages above 50% but us. And we do it routinely! It is just a matter of knowing how to get the information and knowing how to use it.

    BTW, we will teach you exactly how to get your game up to black – safely.

    Playing Baccarat for less than black is pretty much a waste of time unless you are in it just for fun.

    But take a look at this: Playing black in that shoe. you would have won more than enough in 20 bets to pay your entire tuition here twice over. Are you catching my drift? You CAN’T do it on your own. MANY have tried. They will be trying forever.

  227. But Ellis, how hard is it to learn?

    We don’t do anything that requires more than 3rd grade math.

    Let’s take an example:

    Suppose you are on a casino trip and you had come down to the casino early in the morning to play some Baccarat.

    First, why did you do that? Why are you there when most of the other players are still asleep?

    Because you learned right here on the private forum that tables are usually at their choppiest first thing in the morning soon after new cards are presented and such tables are the easiest to beat.

    I have won 20 shoes in a row at +20 each literally hundreds of times by sticking to new cards in the morning. Ha, while they are sleeping I’m playing and while they are playing, I’m sleeping. It is just one of the hundreds of tricks of the trade you’ll learn here.

    I’m often playing head to head at that early hour or with only one or two other players so shoes don’t take long – about 20 – 30 minutes.

    At that hour I’m nearly always playing either S40 or OTB4L but never a streak system because new cards are virtually never streaky. I know these things after 30+ years of play and I teach them to you.

    So OK, lets say we get a shoe where the first 20 plays go:

    We call that the 212s BTW – very common especially with new cards early in the morning.

    Our short cut method of expressing that shoe so far is:

    B12121212121211 After 20 plays we always start a new column.

    OK, my 4 SAP counts are 7 12 0 0 and my O/R count is +7. You learned how to do those your first hour.

    Both are screaming at me to play System 40 which I pretty much already knew anyway both from prior shoes at that table as well as from the time of day.

    My distant 2nd choice is OTB4L – a system nobody knows but us. THAT is why casinos like to deal OTB4L shoes. They always win – ha, unless WE are there.

    When I have that much information going for me I nearly always start at play 2. I
    can always adjust if need be.

    Well, at play 20, S40, having bet a total of 25 units, is at +13 with a highest bet of 2 units. Our PA (Player Advantage) (ROI) (Return On Investment) is a whopping 52%. Our commission is less than 1 unit.

    Ellis, great, but what if since we are new to all this we made a mistake and played OTB4L. After all, that was your second choice?

    Well every bet would be different and you would bet a total of 27 units instead of 25 but at play 20, your score would still be +13, and score is what counts.

    Ellis, how would your so called “street” players fare in this game?

    They would most likely lose their entire buy in , maybe even two buy ins.

    Why? Because street players tend to bet that whatever is behind will catch up. In this case, 3s, at 0, are WAY behind. So street players will be betting that all those 2s will go to 3, while, in fact, none of them do. That’s why we never pay any attention to what the other players are doing. They lose at impossible rates. We play OUR game. OUR game wins – their’s loses.

    Ellis, your example doesn’t seem all that plausible???

    Well it’s just an example to demonstrate a point but it is more plausible than you think. Fully a third of all shoes have no 3 or mores in the first col of 20 plays and it is even more common with new cards. Arrange the 1’s and 2s anyway you want. S40 will score about the same and sometimes even more. I could have put a long ZZ run (PBPBPB) in there and made the score come out closer to +20. The order of events doesn’t mean much. What matters is the COUNT of events! That is why we count.

    But let’s go back to that 52% PA for a minute:

    Recognize that BJ card counters spend all those years of study and practice in an attempt to achieve a 0.5% PA. Hell, we TIP more than that!

  228. So Ellis, what do I get for my efforts? And for my money?

    It depends on the extent of your efforts. Some I call party players. They only want to learn one system. Fine, I designed LCNB for those guys. It is the only winning single system in the world. It has a built in, automated mathematical advantage. It loses on purpose to the event occurring the least so that it wins on the 3 events occurring the most. So you usually win and you win with a maximum bet of only 2 units. Any losses are limited to 6 units – extremely conservative.

    But then you have my kind of player. He’s got that dream – the same dream I had back in the ’80s when I quit my Math Professorship to play Atlantic City full time. I was very well paid at S.U.N.Y. – No complaints.

    MY first year I doubled my annual earnings working only 4 days a week. Then I improved from there. It took me 3 years to get barred from every casino in A.C. Then, another 2 years to get barred from every casino in Las Vegas.

    No worries! Casinos do not bar winning Baccarat players anymore. I think I was the first and also the last. Casinos now realize that winning players are good for business. They also know that less than 1% of players win overall.

    Casinos are sitting pretty! Overall they win about 25% in a game that favors them only 1.125%. How? Tactics. Casinos deploy time proven tactics against totally unsuspecting clueless players. Their Bac profits went from 6% in the ’80s to about 25% today all due to tactics – nothing more.

    So, do we complain? NO! Because we win by reversing their own tactics against them! Complaining is the LAST thing we would ever do.

    So now we are talking about the DEVOTED student. He has that dream! He, or she, wants to be the BEST there is, to know everything there is to know . And I want to be the best instructor there is because I know what it’s like to do all this Without a qualified instructor. I know about all the scammers out there feeding on your dream.

    Many of my students are now full time professionals. Three have passed the million dollar mark and one passed the 2 million mark. THOSE are my kind of players. They not only have the dream, they are LIVING the dream!

    So why don’t I go out there and do this myself? I’ve already been there – done that! But now I’m too freaking old to live that life again. I know my place now and my place is teaching you. It’s YOUR turn now!

    Besides, I’m working on my life story. “The Player” by E. Clifton Davis. And it is one hell of a story. Remember, I did it W/O a teacher. YOU’VE got ME.

  229. what happened to the previous workshop? is there a recording of that workshop for us to view in the private forum?

  230. Notice to All Private Members regarding referrals to CFC.

    Based on the value of referrals we are now offering to grant a free no charge attendance to a live workshop to any Private Members who refer Private Members to our site. (Workshops will be held at various locations throughout such as Las Vegas, Atlantic City, Macau, Canada and other areas to be determined)

    This will help all of us get to our 100 Private Member Club which we are focused on helping Private Members become members of the 100 Million Dollar Club….

    This is our Mission Statement for Goals and Objectives of Casino Forum Club….

  231. From the Private Forum:

    I think LCNB gives us a preview of how NOR and Exploit will perform using SAP.

    Every shoe dealt is either NOR or RSAP. Either a shoe is biased or it’s neutral (Random).

    SAP tells us how strongly biased or how Neutral a shoe is. It also tells us which bias a shoe is producing the strongest and therefore which system is optimum to play as well as if and when to switch systems. And also when a bias is strong enough for Exploit.

    SAP is also the best way to determine the best Mode when playing S40 or OTB4L which are our only systems that require Modes. That stops a whole lot of mistakes.

    I’ll be showing you in your System Selection Table how SAP selects your optimum Mode.

    When a shoe is only slightly biased we take no chances and stick to a 123 prog with a goal of +10.

    Medium bias we bet U1D2 and go for +20.

    Strong bias we Exploit and go for +30 recognizing that +50 is often attainable.

    When only one SAP count number is out of the pack such as 8444 we are going to win a lot of our first bets so we go with 345 U1D2 and go for +30 Because that prog greatly increases our score while reducing our risk.

    Basically :

    High 1’s is S40

    Low 1’s is Repeats

    High 2s is OTB4L

    Low 2s is TB4L

    High 3s with high 1’s is TB4L as long as 2s are low.

    High 3s with high 2s is OTB4L.

    High 3s with high 4+ is Repeats.

    High 4+ with low 1’s is Repeats.

    But if we look at what is high, what is 2nd high, and what is low, that totally defines the optimum system to play. And if we look at HOW high, that defines the optimum progression to bet.

    Like I said before, you need to study your System Selection Table until you know it thoroughly! But as your experience increases, so does your understanding of your Selection table. You get to the point you can merely glance at a tote board and know what to play and how best to bet. Your whole game is automated by SAP.

    Eventually, SAP makes you INVINCIBLE!

    And the more they cheat, the more invincible you get!

    THAT is why I’m now teaching you EVERYTHING from the SAP perspective.

    Don’t know why I didn’t think of this before.

    The best way to stop you from making mistakes is to stop you from making decisions. We let SAP decide EVERYTHING. Get it?

    And CFC is the ONLY place in the world you can learn the SAP way of playing.

    SAP is literally a game changer!

  232. Therefore we SAP the casino! We deplete its strength. The casino’s strength is multiple strategies. SAP detects all casino strategies quickly with dead accuracy. We have a system for every casino strategy. SAP tells us which system to play and which progression is optimum. But first it tells us which table has the strongest bias. When we stick to the strongest bias, we make the most money.

    SAP also tells us which tables to avoid – changing biases. We’ve all had tables we wish we had avoided. SAP puts that mistake in our past.

    SAP is a whole new way of playing Baccarat. It’s like a flashlight in the dark. Like when you put your car’s computer on Navigation.

    SAP does your thinking for you. Throughout the shoe, it tells you the Optimum system to play and the Optimum progression to bet.

    SAP is OUR best friend and the casino’s worst enemy. But there’s not a damn thing they can do about it.

    SAP makes us look like geniuses. The other players marvel at our hit rate. We get used to other players following us – even thanking us.

    We deploy SAP every game we play – every system we play – every Betting Strategy we deploy.

    SAP makes us the best players in the casino. Both the casino and the players quickly realize that.

    I’ve had another player ask the dealer a question during a hot game. And the dealer replied : hell I don’t know – ask him – He’s the best player in this casino – maybe in the whole world.

    How long does it take to learn SAP?

    About ten minutes. Then you keep getting better the rest of your life.

  233. Look, the odds of the game are 50/50 +1.25% commission..

    Yet, players lose at an astounding rate of 15% +.

    Mathematicians will tell you THAT is IMPOSSIBLE! Yet there it is.

    How can that possibly be?

    It proves one thing for sure: Casinos KNOW what they are doing. Casino strategy Works!

    Casinos like to lull you to sleep with repetition. They are setting you up for the kill – waiting for you to increase your stakes. And when you do WHAM! Everything changes. THAT is what they are good at.

    We must stay on CONSTANT alert! We can’t let our guard down.

    We beat casinos by deploying their own strategy against them.

    When THEY change, WE must change right along with them.

    We can’t afford lapses.

    I’m teaching you about ten ways to beat a casino.

    But the trick remains – We must deploy the right system at the right time.

    And the secret to that is tote board reading.

    We must all become expert at tote board reading.

    And it’s not that hard. It is all plain common sense.

    Playing Baccarat W/O knowing how to read a tote board is like playing golf W/O knowing which way the green is.

    Once you know the systems, the rest is correct tote board reading.

    That’s why I spend so much time on it.

    Tote board reading is EVERYTHING!

  234. All good conversation but I would be careful about making blanket statements re Baccarat such as NOR doesn’t bode well against factory preshuffled cards.

    I prefer, “Never decide what you are going to play before you see what you are up against.”

    I was playing Caesars Vegas regularly last year. Because that casino uses solely factory preshuffled cards, I was playing MDB+ which beats random cards..

    I was playing their high stakes room because there, they use new cards every shoe which is what MDB+ likes best.

    All went well for many trips, until…..

    I get there late on a Sat. afternoon. I was scheduled to meet up with Art and Ed Gil. Not seeing either around yet, I take my regular seat at their main 14 player high stakes table. Per usual, I play MDB+ W/O giving it a second thought – always a mistake.

    You should ALWAYS check out the whole situation thoroughly before ever making your first bet.

    I lose a 1,2 betting 1’s will go to 2. And then another 1,2.

    I’m at hand 56, down -6 W/O having won a single bet.

    Then I bet 4 that 2 single 1’s would go multiple 1. It did and I finish down 2.

    THEN I did what I should have done in the first place – I took stock.

    The shoe had NO 2s !

    What are the odds of that?

    1 out of 256,000! Yet it was my 3rd 2-less shoe in Vegas that year!

    Random my ass!

    Had I taken stock, all I had to do was play TB4L. The ONLY thing TB4L losses to is 2s. If you have no 2s, TB4L doesn’t lose to anything – it wins every single progression at either the 1 or the 2 or the 3 bet level.

    Had I not skipped my normal process of taking stock, it was an easy +40 shoe!

    But instead, of starting out at +40, because of my haste, I started out at -2.

    Then I met up with Art and Ed.

    They had both also finished their first shoes. Both lost.

    Why? Because, like me, they had both played MDB+ W/O first checking.

    Art’s shoe had 17 1’s in a row in it. How random is THAT?

    Ed’s shoe was 80% Repeats! How random is that?

    So THEN we did what we SHOULD have done in the first place – We checked every table in the casino – both high stakes and on the open floor.

    Guess what? Every single table in that casino – about 60 – was a NOR table. We are talking PERFECT NOR tables.

    So Ed and I switched to NOR and beat one table after another after another. We won every single table we played. Ed wrote a trip report back there. I never even used a score card.

    Art, very stubborn minded, stuck with MDB+. He had his first lost trip.

    So what is the lesson here?

    ALWAYS case the joint FIRST!

    Never assume ANYTHING.

    Casinos DO their job!

    Their job is to present a moving target.

    What worked yesterday may be the WORST way to play today.

    Casinos ALWAYS do THEIR job – We need to ALWAYS do OURS!

    We can’t leave entire steps out of our procedure and still expect to win.

    We need to play what wins TODAY – not what won yesterday.

  235. I am no longer using NOR as it does not fair well against pre-shuffled cards. The method(s) I use are mostly my own creations and very unit as you have never seen before. It analyzes the PB in a 6th dimension and further to that, is broken up into various offset pattern win loss sequences and then measures the success of those win loss sequences to finally arrive to a bet place,net signal. On top of that, disparity of the win losses is measured as a filter to bet placement odds. Sounds complicated eh? Well, it’s not really, and I am not in a position to fully disclose it at this time, sorry. I also use MDB+ and it is also part of the method above.
    Moneym magemebt is utmost important and I believe in lifetime bankrolls of 150 or greater. Sounds high? Not really, have you ever considered a casinos bankroll size they use compared to the money they risk on a daily basis ?. Think about it… If you start to have a losing streak, your bet size is adjusted by bankroll unit size divisible by 150. You should stay alive a long time. As you continue to win, you should raise lifetime bankroll by 10 units.
    These are some thoughts for now.


  236. hi,cdn

    danny here,thanks for the reply.FYI, I DON’T have any basic knowledge of NOR as we speak.if I may ask the following;
    1.what system/method of ellis are you using to achieve consistent,day to day wins (6-7 units plus/day)?
    2.if you are say beginning to wager say $25 minimum basebets ,do you apply up as you lose,down 2 as you win in the beginning of your bets.(U1D2)
    is that how you apply NOR a oppose to LCNB bets (2 ,units your highest bet)
    3.So I’m guessing that pre-shuffled cards you are using MDB (I DON’T have knowledge of that too) and the 4 tables regular cards you used NOR here.
    4,if you could illustrate through examples like in your last teaching on feb 10 while,using $25 basebets,the formula;U1D1 as oppose to U1D2.btw,what are the modes? and how do you use them in conjunction w/U1D1/U1D2
    5,do you combine NOR, and then along the way,if the patterns changes you change the method too? so that,per shoe you change methods twice? to attain “target 6 but take 5 and don’t forced it if it doesn’t win”strategy.

    PPs,if that strategy on feb 10 2016 works,as well as the answers to the 5questions you are about to send to me,then I’M ALL EARS,pal !! :good: thanks very much

  237. I can totally relate to what you are saying in this post. Like Ellis has taught me and foremost I have learned a lot with close to 20 years of baccarat experience, HWR (Hands Win Rate) is what makes your game successful and determines the progression used in your system of choice. Over the past 4 months I have been using a method that consistently has >50% HWR, and that’s all you need. I HAVE SOME SHOES WITH UP TO 74% HWR even. With this HWR, I have chosen to use U1D2 progression along with a “Stop Win Target” of +5> units per shoe. When you can achieve this on a regular basis, I have obtained between 15 – 20 units per session, and your bankroll grows very steadily.

    As for the comment about tidily winks and value of chips, here are my thoughts. The chips do represent “real money”, but here’s where most gamblers get it all wrong. I know this because I was once there in this type of thinking but have grown out of it so to speak, you need to learn how to think in “units”. When I do my buy-in, that’s the last moment I think about the $ value of my chips as I quickly check that the dealer has given me the correct amount, after that, I think units and units only…. PERIOD! that is your first step to overpowering fear of losing money. I hear people at the table whining about how much $$$ there are down and when I leave the table a dealer may ask how I did and a typical answer may be; “plus 7 units”, even they give me this confused look as if they were thinking {what are you taking about?}

    Okay, I’m on a roll here… Here is something I believe is very important, having the “Stop Win” rule and Obey it with great discipline. my phrase goes like this; “Target six, take five” this means when you are able to win at +6, you are guaranteed to win that shoe, why?, because you will not let your winnings drop below +5. Here’s an example, if I’m up 7 units and my next bet is 1 unit and I lose that bet, leaving me with 6 units. my next bet in my progression is 2 units…. Do I take the next bet?,… “NO” because if I lose that next bet with 2 units, I would then be at +4 units. So the answer is, you stop and walk away from that table with +6. “No matter what” Do you have the discipline to play this way? I do., and I have won over $13K starting at $25 unit size since early November 2015. Why only $13K you ask? When I cone up with a new idea of method, I believe that you should not risk too much capital until it is fully developed, a method to prove itself should be able to make money on its own.

    I am very fortunate to live near a Casino here in Canada that has over 54 baccarat tables in a single location. If those fifty-four tables, only 4 of them are dealt with regular card shuffle, all the rest are pre-shuffled.

    I met Ellis via telephone conversation over 10 yrs ago and he changed my way of thinking and I owe him thanks for changing the way my game has evolved to as it is played today. I was there the day that Eliis and I both came up with the idea of OTBL and that was the beginning of the foundation for NOR.

    Anyhow, there is my 2 cents worth for the day.

    HWR, Units & Stop-win rule.

    See you at the tables.


  238. Yes, of course Al.

    And thanks for wanting one.

    I’ll never publish this book to the general public.

    Give it a few years.

    Might be worth a lot after I’m gone!!!

    After all, it will be the worldwide Bible of Baccarat.

  239. Let’s get back to Leaks from the private forum.

    As members play it, this LCBN system is turning out to be even better than I thought. Surely the best stand alone system I ever designed.

    Think about it: One simple mechanical system you can learn today and play tomorrow that NEVER bets more than 2 units yet it can easily score in the 20s!

    You can get your entire investment back in one day just following simple rules and recommendations. Here’s another quote from the private forum:

    “I too would like to thank PJ for an excellent contribution. Incredibly, he figured all this out in one day. PJ has been with me many years and we’ve played together many times. He knew to reserve judgement until he played a few shoes. And he found, just as I said, LCNB wins a hell of a lot of shoes very handsomely if you simply follow the rules and table selection recommendations. It has a very strong, built in Mathematical Advantage – a very rare thing in Baccarat.

    But here is the simple FACT of the matter: When we make LC the culprit, we lose against the ONE event occurring the LEAST often in order to win against the THREE events occurring the MOST often. And it works great as PJ found out.

    And let me tell you something about PJ. If there WAS a flaw in our logic, PJ would be the first to tell us. But when there isn’t, PJ is also first to tell us – just as he has done here.

    Sure, it is a brand new concept never thought of before by anybody. So we still get a few questions and ideas to resolve. BUT, it’s ready for casino play right now!

    I have other field reports that all concur with PJ. This thing wins!

  240. Right Hawk, found it and replied and they were good questions.

    Basically Hawk wanted to know if he should also join pick up any tidbits I left there.

    My reply was basically: Save your money.

    Everything BTC sells or teaches is copyrighted by me.

    Well, except for the 221. That is strictly Keith’s. I’ll have nothing to do with a system that gets up to 17 bets and more. I only saw it played in a casino ONCE. Ron Dibenedetto played it in A.C. at one of my BJ seminars and lost $10,000 in about a half hour. That’s all I needed to see.

    NOR is the most important system for the US and Canada and other countries that use regular cards. You can’t learn NOR at BTC because the manual is extremely outdated and the NOR instructions are mixed in with thousands of pages of forum. Even I can’t find them. They completely lost the sample games and play by plays. They are simply gone – thousands of hours of work that were the only way most players can learn. Vanished! But also BTC is stuck exactly where I left off.

    When I teach NOR here at CFC it will include huge brand new upgrades that BTC knows nothing about such as OTB4LM1 and OTB4L+. OTB4L is the system you will play the most because casinos favor it because nobody can beat an OTB4L shoe but us. So here, and in the Final Word manual, I’m giving you more OTB4L options so that it will successfully cover even more shoes than before. BTC knows nothing of this.

    In the Final Word Manual, all instructions, sample games and play by plays for all systems will be in ONE place with a page by page Table of Contents.

    Got a question? You can look it up in seconds. There’s your answer illustrated in actual games.

    We will be teaching you advanced systems here like RSAP and LCNB which you will not find at BTC.

    Yes, there are old systems that are archived at BTC. But there are good reasons why we no longer teach them. They have been surpassed by better systems.

    I designed MDB+ for new preshuffled cards only. It is a simple purely mechanical system especially for that purpose.

    BTC is trying to make it a Universal all purpose system. They are putting all their eggs in ONE basket. But ANY Mathematician worth his salt will tell you that, by definition, there is no purely mechanicasl system that can beat Baccarat. It is a Mathematical impossibility. Yet BTC….

    Kevin is a good guy and well meaning. He’s trying to teach the “5D” at BTC by adding MDB+ as the 5th D of the 5D. He’s totally leaving out the Net Betting half of the 4D and using the counts merely to identify the strongest bias of a shoe. Sure, this will work! After performing 8 counts and after following countless pages of instruction you will be able to identify the strongest bias of a shoe. Then after countless more pages you will know the best way to play that bias – hopefully.

    That’s actually kind of humorous to me. I will teach you how to precisely identify the strongest bias and precisely measure its strength with ONE count – the SAP count – which you can learn in 10 minutes if you haven’t already. Then I’ll give you a short table that tells you which NOR system is best for that shoe. All of this can be taught on ONE page instead of hundreds.

    Look, tote board reading is the single most important skill you MUST have to play Baccarat successfully. All the systems in the world CAN’T help you if you don’t know which one to play from the tote board.

    There’s not a word about tote board reading at BTC – NOTHING! That’s like having a bunch of arrows but no bow!

    But here, we cover every aspect of tote board reading and all of its tricks of the trade.

    And finally, to learn something correctly, why wouldn’t you go directly to the horse’s mouth???

    Both In The Final Word Manual and right now on the private forum, I’m teaching you a 2Hi system because that is the way most members like to play. BTC has no 2Hi system. It took me 30 years to figure it out.

  241. Hello Ellis, I sent you a private message the other day with some questions about getting started. Could you let me know if you received it or not? Looking forward to learning more! Thanks!

  242. Well Danny, I’ve heard that same story literally thousands of times.
    There is no single system that beats Baccarat consistently.

    And no one has found any other instructor or site that can help you.

    But there are 6 systems that beat virtually any shoe.

    The systems themselves are very easy to learn.

    Then we teach you tote board reading from the perspective of which system to play in the shoe at hand. We also teach you table selection.

    And we teach you conservative but very effective betting.

    From there it is just a question of practice and getting your questions answered.

    The first thing I need to know is where you are playing, do they use regular or factory cards???

    Regular cards originate from 8 sealed decks in boxed card order. Such cards undergo a “card prep” either at the table or in some private casino room.

    Such cards are susceptible to the 5 NOR systems. They are usually highly biased BUT the casino controls how they are biased.

    Factory preshuffled cards originate from a sealed 8 deck numbered bundle direct from the factory. They usually come straight to the table that way.

    Those are susceptible to MDB+, RSAP, and Net Betting. because they are usually artificially random.

    Are you playing “touch” games wherein the players turn over the cards?
    or no touch wherein only the dealer can touch the cards?

    Do you always play the same casino or different casinos?

    How many tables?

    Big Bac or mini?

    Weekdays? Weekends? or both?

    The first thing you want to learn is our short cut method of posting shoes:

    becomes simply:

    P32141111222 (= 20 plays)
    P16213115 (= 20 plays)
    (The last col will usually not total 20)

    We post in cols of 20 plays. This makes it easier to transcribe your shoes accurately.

    I’m sure you have a collection of cards???

    I’d like to see a few of what you would consider typical shoes.

    That way I can get an idea of what you are up against.

    Danny, no matter your 20 years experience, you are still a beginner
    to my way of playing. I suggest you take a vacation from playing until you know what you’re doing and why. It won’t take long.

  243. Hi everyone, I ‘m new to the club and have been playing THE Game of baccarat for almost 2 decades without success. Well some days winning but overall total LOSER! I would like to turn that around and win all that back! Is that doable?

    Spent thousands on so called systems that were useless, This is going to be my final stop in the search for the holy grail of baccarat.

    Is this the one? I’ll make it work this time no matter what and if it doesn’t then I might as well call it quits, for I enjoy the game of baccarat on the weekends after work to relax and unwind.

    It’s just a shame if I discontinue what I have already started for my goal, which is to make a career out of it. I’m open to constructive criticism, advise etc. from who ever is available. thanks everyone!!

  244. The occasional Gold Mine!

    You know, I have a big network of devoted casino detectives.

    Casinos make mistakes! My guys find them and alert me.

    BTW, I’ll be teaching you too, how to case a casino just like a bank robber.

    Well there is a “situation” going on right now in Las Vegas.

    A certain casino has made a mistake. And other casinos are copying the same mistake.

    We can win every shoe playing just one of our most common systems in this situation the casino created out of casino greed.

    If you knew which casino, and which system, you could go there right now and win every shoe automatically W/O even having to change systems. – Virtually a gold mine!

    No, I can’t tell you here on the public forum. I don’t want to alert the casino.
    But Yes, I will tell you on the Private Forum.

    There was a similar situation in Tunica. MS I found it myself. If you played a certain system at certain tables at a certain time of day You could win every shoe with that one same system. I averaged 20 units a shoe there for 3 years. Do the math!

    Hey, what can I say? Casinos make mistakes! We find them! And alert YOU!

    And there is a great one happening right now!

    That’s just one of our services here.

  245. What is my PAYBACK time: ­my ROI? :scratch:  :unsure: 

    So maybe you’re an experienced businessman. Maybe, like

    me, you’ve got some corporate experience.

    $1,250.00 (“The Final Word” manual + One year online support)

    Right, it’s not an expenditure. It’s an investment!

    US Corporations want to see a 3 year ROI or less.

    ROI is, Return On Investment.

    Let’s say an appliance manufacturer is considering a

    million dollar investment in a new automated powder paint

    line. It provides a much better finish on their appliance

    which will increase sales. And, since it’s automated, it will

    reduce labor.

    So their question is: Will the profits on increased sales,

    together with the labor savings total a million dollars inside

    of 3 years???

    If the answer is yes ­ they do it.

    If the answer is no ­ they don’t do it.

    By comparison, Asia wants to see a 20 year ROI.

    That’s why they modernize so much quicker than we do:

    Airports, magnetic high speed trains, roads and bridges and

    yes, automated powder paint lines.

    So, regarding our investment here, a really smart guy

    would ask:

    • Once I learn the six systems here & once I learn tote board reading:

      So I know when NOT to play?
      When TO play?
      And WHICH system to play?

    • How long do I have to play to clear $1,250.00 in profits???:good:

    That’s the question of the day, isn’t it?

    THAT is what a smart player would base his decision on.

    Well I’ve seen many whizzes do it their first shoe playing

    $100 units. Hell, 12.5 units is about average for some of

    our NOR players

    But what about us mortals?

    Well for most, I recommend you start out with $25 units or

    even less if you can find such a table. Local casinos or

    South Point, Vegas. They have 8 or 10 $10 tables. AND

    they strongly favor NOR ­ the first approach you’ll learn.

    Why start so small?

    Because that’s when you’ll likely make mistakes.

    We ALL make mistakes but beginning players make the

    most. Reducing them is just a question of developing your

    casino savvy and your confidence.

    But let’s take a very practical, real world example.

    Ed Gil recently posted his Sept 19th Vegas trip report.

    He happened to post two partial Caesars shoes totalling

    about an hour’s worth of play.

    One makes 42 units playing S40 with a 345 progression

    playing exactly as your Final Word Manual tells you to

    play it.

    The other makes 14 units playing TB4L straight out of

    your manual. No tricks of the trade ­ just basic play right

    out of your manual.

    That’s 56 units in an hour of play. That’s $1,400.00 playing

    QUARTERS ($25 units).

    So, using a very practical, very real world example, your

    payback time was not 3 years, not 20 years, but ONE


    What do you think a Corporate President would do with an

    investment decision that pays him back in ONE HOUR?

    Ha, and what if he’s Asian?

    They would jump all over it, wouldn’t they.

    And so should you! – Ellis (It’s not just personal, it’s GOOD BUSINESS!) :good:

  246. Oh, BTW, I can’t play these shoes out for you on the public forum. But I WILL play them out for you on the private baccarat forum both with the 1234 prog and also on the 2nd shoe, the 345 prog.

    Guys, I know you think I’m telling you a lot on the public forum but the fact is I’m not.

    The fact is, you would be in serious trouble if you tried to play based only on what’s in the public forum. But I DO want to tell you enough on the public forum that you recognize we are for real.

    But the Private Baccarat forum is the best Baccarat instruction in the world. NOBODY ELSE is even in our league!

  247. OK, let’s pull Ed Gil’s trip report apart and see exactly what’s going on with him.

    Ed said: “High Roller Room–September 19, 2015–7:49 PM—Minimum bet $100

    P1412111313612412111. This shoe was High in 1’s and 3+ which favored TB4L. I lost 4 units and quit.”

    Ok, Ed got the hard part right: High 1’s and 3s is, in fact, TB4L so he’s playing the right system. TB4L has no modes and all your bets are already OTR so there are no OTR decisions. So all all he had to do was make the bets TB4L calls for on the side TB4L calls for. This shoe scores +14 played NOR+ (U1D2) and +13 played Basic NOR (a 123 4 prog). Your worst position is -1 at play 3 because you lose your first bet of the shoe. But you’re never in the red again in this shoe and it’s clear sailing right up to +14. In fact you are already +10 at the bottom of the first column signifying a great shoe in process!

    So how did Ed end up at -4? Well, I’ll tell you how. He chickened out. He did not make the bets called for. It’s as simple as that. This was a perfect TB4L shoe but only if you make the bets called for. This shoe gets to a 3 bet, count them, 3 times and it gets to a 4 bet once. The rest of the time you are betting 1 or 2.

    There is no polite way of saying this – Ed screwed up a perfect TB4L shoe by not betting the bet called for.

    I blame Keith for this! Keith said, and I quote: ” I never bet 3 playing NOR I go back to 1.”

    Well, that is NOT NOR. That is BS! And it is a guaranteed way to lose! It is a cut your losses way of playing. It is NOT a winning way. I don’t care if Keith loses. It’s his money. But I DO care when he gives out instructions that cause my players to lose. And playing NOR 2 Hi is a guaranteed way of losing. That’s exactly why Keith always loses. He plays HIS way – not mine. These are MY players – not his. I taught them. He didn’t lift a finger to teach them except to give them a guaranteed way of losing.

    NOR is not a 2 Hi system! NOR is a 4 Hi, play every hand, system. Once you start you don’t stop until you hit your stop win. You don’t skip hands and you always make the bet called for. THAT is NOR. If you are not willing to do that – stay home. Don’t blame me for your losses.

    NOR+ is a 6 Hi system. Granted, 6 bets come up once in a blue moon BUT if you aren’t prepared to make 6 bets, don’t play NOR+. Stick with NOR BUT be willing and prepared to make 4 bets when called for. If you change them to 1 bets you are NOT playing NOR and you are going to lose, for sure.

    Look, whether 4Hi or 6Hi we are STILL the lowest bettors at the table by far. Yet we are the highest winners but only if you make the bets called for.

    OK, I think you’ve got my message so lets move on to Ed’s next shoe:

    “Regular Casino Area– September 19, 2015–9:00 PM—Minimum bet $25

    P11311611121111122221221212. This shoe was High in 1’s and 2’s which favored OTB4L, except where you had the run of 6. I won 13 units and quit.”

    Hmm, I’m glad Ed won 13 units in this shoe. It shows the power of NOR even when you play the wrong system. Hi 1’s and 2s is NOT OTB4L. It’s S40.

    So I played it S40 by the book. It hits +20 already at play 38 again with a highest bet of a single 4. Your PA is an incredible 37% All you do is make the bets S40 calls for in the Mode your OR counts calls for. Very simple.

    As great as this shoe was, unfortunately our OR count betrayed us.

    At the Mode decision play, play 10, the OR count was +1. Had it been just 1 different, 0, we would have been in Mode 2 and we would have won 3 more units putting our PA at an unheard of 40%! Just a bit of bad luck.

    But +20 in 37 bets is about as good as it gets. Our ABS (avg bet size) was 1.4.

    That’s about as good as it gets. BUT you have to be playing the right system. Hi 1’s and 2s is ALWAYS S40.

    So Ed said: “This shoe was High in 1’s and 2’s which favored OTB4L, except where you had the run of 6.”

    Guys, watch my lips: NO NOR system loses to a 6iar or even a 7.

    Runs are your FRIEND! Not your enemy. Why is everybody afraid of runs? Just follow the rules! You’ll do fine. Your only enemy is you.

    But, if you go back to a 1 OTR, like Keith said, instead of the 3 NOR calls for – Yep, now runs are your enemy and ALL shoes have runs. That’s why you’ll lose.

    So my point here is: If you are going to play NOR, fine, play it by the rules. They are tried and true. You will already be the most conservative player at the table by far.

    BUT, there is such a thing as being TOO conservative giving yourself no chance of winning.

    One last thing: In both shoes I was playing NOR our most conservative way possible. And it did very well.

    BUT, whenever we have a high hit rate on our first bets, basic NOR calls for a 345 progression. Remember that from your manual? Well there is sound reason for that: Had I bet the 345 called for in the 2nd shoe it hits +42 at play 41!

    It hits +42 in half a shoe in spite of the fact that we lose an entire 345 progression. But remember what I told you in the manual. The 345 can afford to lose a progression more than any other progression. Remember that?

    When you lose a 345 you are 4 units down.

    BUT, When you lose a 123 you are 6 units down.

    So which is the more conservative?

    Which is the safest?

    And which wins the most?

    Do we always do it? No!

    But when we have a high hit rate on our first bets – like usual…..

  248. Right Vinny! First and foremost a player MUST be both comfortable and confident in what he’s doing.

    Many, like you, are more comfortable with the very occasional but high hit rate betting of MDB+.

    Others, for the same reason, don’t like it. They WANT to play most every hand.

    Our best players will go by what they see where and when they play.

    When they see bias, they play NOR.

    When they don’t they play MDB+.

    Both are good concepts in their own environments.

    And fortunately here in the US, we have BOTH.

    For instance I was just looking over 14 shoes from that 4 games at once set up from Pallazio, Vegas.

    I said we can rule out MDB+ completely because every shoe is highly biased.

    We can rule out TB4L because every shoe is loaded with 2s.

    We can rule out S40 because the shoes are loaded with ST, ZZ and TT runs.

    But a qualified OTB4L player can make a fortune betting U1D2 M2 in Mode 2 to get on the many long runs the quickest – even U1D1M2.

    This set up is so popular, other casinos are putting them in.

    But can you imagine betting U1D2 every hand on 4 shoes at once?

    A lot of players love it so I MUST teach how to beat it.

    Ha, but YOU, I don’t think it’s your cup of tea.

    To each his own.

  249. Right Vinny! First and foremost a player MUST be both comfortable and confident in what he’s doing.

    Many, like you, are more comfortable with the very occasional but high hit rate betting of MDB+.

    Others, for the same reason, don’t like it. They WANT to play most every hand.

    Our best players will go by what they see where and when they play.

    When they see bias, they play NOR.

    When they don’t they play MDB+.

    Both are good concepts in their own environments.

    And fortunately here in the US, we have BOTH.

    For instance I was just looking over 14 shoes from that 4 games at once set up from Pallazio, Vegas.

    I said we can rule out MDB+ completely because every shoe is highly biased.

    We can rule out TB4L because every shoe is loaded with 2s.

    We can rule out S40 because the shoes are loaded with ST, ZZ and TT runs.

    But a qualified OTB4L player can make a fortune betting U1D2 M2 in Mode 2 to get on the many long runs the quickest – even U1D1M2.

    This set up is so popular, other casinos are putting them in.

    But can you imagine betting U1D2 every hand on 4 shoes at once?

    A lot of players love it so I MUST teach how to beat it.

    Ha, but YOU, I don’t think it’s your cup of tea.

    To each his own.

  250. Ellis,

    Using your strategy with casing the tables and finding the most consistent table, if you could tailor it to my style of betting I would appreciate it. In my humble opinion, I don’t feel comfortable betting every hand. I think using the betting strategy in MDB+ is the best. Bet when the opportunity presents itself. When you find a table and it doesn’t matter what system you identify, once there is an opposite you can bet to whatever system you think is the best. When there is an opposite it starts a new sequence. If you win great, if you lose U1D2. If you are winning you know you are doing something right. If you are losing or going up to a 3 bet all the time re-evaluate.

  251. My Memorable Experience with Ellis

    I had the pleasure of playing with Ellis and Art on September 19th and 20th. We played at Caesars in the High Stakes room as well as the Low Stakes area. I followed Ellis like a puppy dog. My goal was to store as much information as my brain cells could retain on Ellis playing style. I’ve had several Instructors in my time but Ellis is the only one that plays right along side and puts his money where his mouth is. The following is my documentation of the occasion.

    Ellis, the master, does not use a score card. He walks around checking out the Tote boards. Using his experience he mentally classifies the shoes into categories such as S40, OTB4L, TB4L, REPEATS or MDB+. When he sees a shoe to his liking, he sits down and plays. When the shoe starts going against him he picks up his winnings and moves on. He does not wait. He reminds me of a guerrilla fighter. He does not force the play.

    One S40 shoe we were winning every progression at either the 1 bet or a rare 2 bet. We had just won 8 or 9 bets in a row and we were beginning to draw an audience. I had my 2 bet up when Ellis said: “Ed, just bet 1. This shoe has been too good for too long.” Sure enough, we lost our 1 bet. Ellis said: “we are way up – we’re out of here!” We colored in and sure enough we would have lost the next bet. Ellis has that knack.

    Ellis frequently checked on Art at a $200 table playing MDB+. He could tell exactly where Art stood just looking at the tote board. Art was betting a 2-4 progression. This one time, Art had his 4 bet up on Player. Ellis said: “this is a particularly good bet – watch this!” Ellis handed Art a $100 bill and said: “put a black up for me on top of your bet!” So we had $500 bet on Player. The rest of the table was on Bank. They lost! Art handed Ellis 2 hundred dollar bills! Ellis said to me. “OK, let’s go find a game!”

    A shoe from the high roller room and a shoe from the regular casino area are listed for demonstration of my play.

    High Roller Room–September 19, 2015–7:49 PM—Minimum bet $100

    P1412111313612412111. This shoe was High in 1’s and 3+ which favored TB4L. I lost 4 units and quit.

    This was the first time that I ever played in the High Roller room where minimum bet start at $100 and go up to $500. I did not feel any fear, I had Ellis coaching me.

    Regular Casino Area– September 19, 2015–9:00 PM—Minimum bet $25

    P11311611121111122221221212. This shoe was High in 1’s and 2’s which favored OTB4L, except where you had the run of 6. I won 13 units and quit.

    My question is: What do you do where casinos outside of Vegas only have 2 Tables? My opinion is to be patient and disciplined, and hit when the iron is hot. Bet the highest unit you can afford and quit when the shoe turns.

    I am looking forward to The Final Word. It will be the best Baccarat Manual EVER based on seeing Ellis in action!


    Ed Gil

  252. OK so black2bac asks:

    “September 30, 2015 at 10:09 pm
    Wow! Nice synopsis of NOR methods analysis. You just stated what it took about 30 hours to read on BTC……just kidding!

    Here’s a forum question: in your example shoe of repeats, supposing that the player run ends at 2. That is, you’ve encountered your first 2iar, the nemesis of all TB4L strategies. What would you do next? Continue on betting repeats, sit out a while, or leave the game. What if the next event were another 2iar?

    This is a critical issue that comes up often and goes to the heart of the “system switching” dilemma. Hope this gets some attention in the manual.”

    Ellis says:
    Aha, perfect question: Now you will see the wisdom of adding

    ‘simply betting Repeats’ to the NOR choices!

    So OK, you’ve got a streaky shoe on your hands meaning it is high in Repeats – a negative OR count.

    First recognize that 2s don’t change the OR count. 2s consist of one opposite and one repeat so we could say they are OR neutral.

    So again: “What are 2s doing?” In a streaky shoe 2s can be high, low or normal.

    We have TWO streak systems in NOR: Repeats and TB4L. 2s decide which we play.

    Repeats LOVES 2s! We keep losing our 1 and winning our 2 bet. We’ll take that all day.

    TB4L Hates 2s!

    On the other hand:

    TB4L LOVES ZZs while

    Repeats HATES ZZS.

    But fortunately for us, shoes CAN’T be High in everything or Low in everything.

    For everything a shoe is High in, it MUST be equally low in something else.

    Therefore, a streaky shoe CAN’T be high in both 2s and ZZs. It MUST be one or the other.

    Therefore streaky shoes are decided by 2s.

    High 2s or even normal 2s we play Repeats. Low or no 2s we play TB4L.

    Or we could say the same thing this way: In streaky shoes,

    High ZZs we play TB4L, high 2s we play Repeats. A streaky shoe CAN’T have both. See that?

    If you understand that you’ve eliminated all excuses for ever losing a streaky shoe AND HALF of all shoes are streaky.

    ON the other hand: half of all shoes are choppy and the ONLY thing that can cause a choppy shoe is High 1’s. NOTHING else can cause a choppy shoe.
    That’s S40!

    The only thing left is neutral shoes: an OR count hovering Zero. (Runless shoes.)

    Those are nearly always high in single and double 1’s, 2s and 3s – perfect for OTB4L.

    See why we want consistency? The ONLY thing we can lose to is shoes that are a mixture of the above. THAT is why we avoid those in the first place or get out at the first sign of trouble.

    This should give tote board reading a whole new meaning!

    So, back to your question: We are cruising along with TB4L in a streaky shoe when up jumps 2s. What do we do? Simple! We slip into Repeats. Repeats loves twos! Get it?

  253. Wow! Nice synopsis of NOR methods analysis. You just stated what it took about 30 hours to read on BTC……just kidding!

    Here’s a forum question: in your example shoe of repeats, supposing that the player run ends at 2. That is, you’ve encountered your first 2iar, the nemesis of all TB4L strategies. What would you do next? Continue on betting repeats, sit out a while, or leave the game. What if the next event were another 2iar?

    This is a critical issue that comes up often and goes to the heart of the “system switching” dilemma. Hope this gets some attention in the manual.

  254. For instance: here’s an easy one:

    The tote board reads: PPPP BBBBB PP

    What do you play?

    Answer: Repeats but with an expectancy to go to TB4L at the first sign of a ZZ.

    Repeats just won 8 out of 10 plays for crying out loud.

    But Repeats is vulnerable to ZZs. But its a simple maneuver to slip into TB4L from Repeats. Now you beat EVERYTHING except 2’s.

    Your bet is P. Get your bet out on the table right now! You can get comfortable in your seat and buy chips later. Put cash on P if you have no chips. They take cash you know. Then buy your chips.

    These are the kinds of things you need to know automatically W/O having to think about it. Sure, player MIGHT only go 2. But in this case your odds are NOT 50/50. They are 80/20 in your favor.

    So I ask you again: The shoe is over and it was 80% Repeats. What were your odds every time you bet Repeat???

    You already know the shoe is highly biased. You don’t ask how or why. You bet on the fact of the matter that is staring you in the face. Get it?

  255. You know, Keith has this new deal he’s charging $25 a month for where you can post a shoe. Then a computer program checks about ten different ways of playing your shoe and then plays it for you the best way.

    Cute! But how does that help you?

    Look, everybody knows how to play a shoe once it’s over with.

    But the fact remains – we don’t get ten tries.

    We get ONE try.

    First we look at ALL the tote boards to detect the general playing conditions of that casino at that specific time. Then we look for the most consistent tote board start. You get better and better with practice – to the point where you seldom have to change systems mid shoe. I’m at the point where I only need to change systems about once every ten shoes. That’s where you need to be and I think I know a way to get you there where you can practice right here on the forum.

    It’s a lot cheaper to practice here than in a casino!

    And here I can SHOW you how to select the system that best fits the tote board start.

    Here’s what I’m thinking…

    Everybody these days has a camera phone.

    Fine, take pictures of tote boards in progress and post them here.

    That gives us the most meaningful discussion – the most pertinent discussion to winning at Baccarat on the entire internet. Hands on, real world, virtual in casino training. It gets right to the challenge we face every time we step into a casino.

    THAT is what you need to know – how to play a shoe BEFORE the fact..

    After the fact doesn’t help. It’s too late.

    What do you guys think? Wouldn’t that be the very best training possible.

    Isn’t that the very challenge we face?

    Guys, wouldn’t that make CFC the best Baccarat forum possible?

  256. So let’s get down to brass tacks. Yes, beating a casino is somewhat an art form. But in the final analysis you simply need the discipline to follow certain rules.

    Look, it’s YOU against THEM and THEY are professionals. You must think like a professional too. You can’t follow the crowd. The crowd loses. You’ve got to be your own person and do your own thing.

    Every casino has vulnerabilities, your duty is to find them and exploit them. They are there – ALWAYS.

    Look at the average player. How do they perform? They walk into a casino and find their game and their stakes and then grabs the first open seat they can find.

    That’s a loss looking for a place to happen!

    No, no, no! That’s not how you beat a casino.

    YOU are a pro. THINK like a pro. ACT like a pro. BE a pro.

    Rule Number One. Case the joint! ALWAYS, the first thing you do is case the joint like a bank robber.

    Examine the tote boards. There is ALWAYS a best one.

    What are you looking for? Consistency!

    Well, first, what do you avoid?

    You pass right by tote boards where you see inconsistency – chop changing to streak or streak changing to chop. Strangely, that’s where the crowd usually is.


    You don’t care what it is consistent in as long as it is consistent.

    Consistent chop – lots of 1’s and 2s and the occasional 3. That’s a sys 40 game!

    Consistent streak – lots of runs both ST and ZZ but low 2s. That’s a TB4L game.

    Consistent Neutral – runless tote board. Lots of 2s and 3s and single 1’s. – OTB4L

    Consistent random – all events occurring at normal frequency. That’s MDB+

    Don’t make the mistake I made. Don’t assume It’s MDB+ just because they are dealing factory cards. All casinos have strategies. Your job is to detect their strategy. Chop, Streak, Neutral or Random.

    The single most important event – the most telling event is TWOS.

    What are 2s doing?

    Low 2s is TB4L
    High 2s is OTB4L.
    Normal 2s – one every 8 plays, is MDB+

    There may be several good tables but there is always a BEST table.

    Find it and exploit it.

    That is what separates YOU from the crowd.

    They don’t care where they play. That’s why they lose.

    But you care and you care a lot. That’s why you win! That’s HOW you win!

    THAT is the whole secret of Baccarat!

    CASE the joint! Find the best table, It is there, It’s always there! Waiting, inviting,

    Find it. Then adjust your progression to the quality of the table.

    To be a pro you’ve got to THINK like a pro.

  257. I have come to believe that a great teacher is a great artist and that there are as few as there are any other great artists. Teaching might even be the greatest of the arts since the medium is the human mind and spirit.
    John Steinbeck

  258. We like to develop our mentality and teach it and so players think the way we want to think so that we can function and execute the way we want to function.

    Each One, Teach One… – Ellis

    If I am walking with two other men, each of them will serve as my teacher. I will pick out the good points of the one and imitate them, and the bad points of the other and correct them in myself.

    CFC :good:

  259. nice quote,could read this before going into a casino.practice,practice,practice,and this becomes more easy to understand,when you get yourself in those tough situations and in life as well,slow down and smell the roses.nice write up :good:

  260. Hi Vinny
    It’s all good now, Ellis was just informed that our records back on July 22nd confirmed that your payment for “The Final Word” was received back on July 2nd, 2015 via PayPal.

    Ellis will follow up with you as well…

    Have a good day,

  261. Gaming so often mirrors life…..the odds are usually against. The keys to success are to pay attention, recognize and then seize opportunity when it’s there! The rest is just waiting…. :-)

  262. I totally agree with you Ellis on that one….
    In fact I always say it’s not how much money you win but more really how many more hands you win…

    And once I’ve got that under my control only then will I increase my minimum bets…..

  263. Hi Ellis,
    I too sent you $500 to your PayPal account a few days ago, saw the $30 shipping and also sent that to your PayPal last night. Can you verify? Also, can we assume the year subscription starts when we receive the manual, not when we buy it?

  264. Don’t get me wrong guys – I have nothing against MDB+. After all, it is my creation.

    But it is not a system you can party around with a group. It is a loner’s system.

    You really don’t want other guys at the table playing the same as you. You want them betting every hand which allows you to wait out hands – lots of hands.

    NOR – that’s a whole different story. We can fill a table with our group.

    NOR is far more compatible with group play. See that?

  265. Yes Jim, you were confirmed on 7/23/2015 and thanks for your continued support for the last- um, what is it now, about 100 years?

    You guys are right. BTC has got themselves in a financial bind. No manuals to sell and no qualified Instructor and no annual fee.

    The last Vegas crawl was a TOTAL disaster. You NEVER announce to a casino that you are coming there with group money to play their random cards. That was extremely naive. The first shoe we get had no 2s. Try playing MDB+ in a shoe with no 2s. We never even won a single bet. Do you think that was just a huge coincidence. We should have worn red coats and marched in a straight line. We might just as well have simply mailed them everybody’s money.

    “I just went to purchase the forum access, however there is currently a $30 “shipping & handling” fee that doesn’t make sense for a forum access. Could you have admin remove that line item from the purchase page?”

    Already did. But I’ll do it again with more gusto.

    $1799 ! You gotta be kidding me. There are only 7 freaking triggers and they are as plain and obvious as the nose on your face. In my manual, I’m showing them all on score card – both vertical and horizontal. Good grief, Keith just realized last month that MDB+ was on his forum. He will learn that there are only about a dozen guys in the US interested in MDB+ no matter how hard I tried to create interest. Let’s see how Keith does. Most can’t sit there and not bet. They want something that beats their local casinos and on line casinos.

    Which reminds me: For NOR, I have always recommended a vertical card.

    However, with MDB+, I now recommend a horizontal card just like the tote board. Art and I did that at Caesar’s and I’m telling you: It’s much easier and obvious that way.

    Black2back, you continue to impress me! You have a knack for stating the obvious.

    Here’s an idea! How about a NOR get together at South Point??? We could get a group discount and stay right there. It is a low stakes NOR casino with plenty of tables and I’m sure they have a conference room where we could brush up on NOR tactics. That place is a gold mine for NOR.

    $1799? Hmm, I’m thinking more like $179 – about the same as your room discount. We could double up on the rooms.

    That is IF we’ve got enough guys interested in playing Vegas.

    I think our guys are more comfortable betting most every hand and playing $10 tables.

    All the factory cards casinos (MDB+) are at least $100 min. And they are quick to raise the stakes to 200 or even 300!.

    I mean which would you rather do – bet a 124 prog with $100 units and bet once every ten hands.


    Bet a 234 with $5 chips and bet every hand once started?
    or $10 units or $25 units or whatever you like.

    Way2fast, your vote doesn’t count. Few have your gift of extreme patience.

  266. Yes, Hehe!… all means finish the manual!!

    Honestly, I see no need to apologize. If this forum will be run by professionals, they’ll have to be compensated for professional services. That’s pretty obvious. Better to pay an annual membership with an all inclusive reference text, than to be fleeced for individual resources in al-a-carte fashion over time.

    BTC fees for separate manuals, resources, and in particular, training seminars, are to put it kindly,… OBSCENE. ($1799 for a 5 hour “Team Summit” on MDB triggers is the latest hit-and-run I’ve noticed). Perhaps a failure to organize a rational membership fee structure early on lead to chaos there. Hoping that won’t be repeated here.

    An issue that does deserve clarification. In light of the fact that manual does not yet exist, and no private forums to interact on…..when does the year-long membership commence? Let us know at your convenience.

    Best wishes on the paper chase and getting it all rolled out….

  267. Hi Ellis,

    I’d ordered the manual via your private PayPal account, presume you received that?

    I expect those who saw the offer you’d put out at BTC for very early birds would have assumed it included the forum for a year.

    But I’m happy to support your efforts and spring for the forum which is how BTC should have been run from the start to really support it as a business and cover your efforts.

    I just went to purchase the forum access, however there is currently a $30 “shipping & handling” fee that doesn’t make sense for a forum access. Could you have admin remove that line item from the purchase page?

    Thanks & regards, Jim

  268. Having closely monitored your play at South Point. I consistently saw that you have the makings of a great player – I can always tell – good instincts, good judgement. and careful cash mgt. As you build your confidence, begin watching how U1D2 betting (NOR+) would be doing at South Point. Not every shoe, mind you, but when you see particularly favorable tote boards like the ones we saw, begin monitoring U1D2 and even U1D2M2. I’ll be showing you how those betting strategies work. But bottom line, they can make the most out of good situations.

    Betting U1D2, mostly OTB4L and S40, I was able to average 20 units a shoe over a 3 year period at Gold Strike, Tunica, MS. I realize that sounds a lot but it is really quite normal for U1D2 in a reasonably good environment. And, the down 2 feature makes it less aggressive than a simple 123 progression.

    And yes, we are certainly VERY interested in keeping up with Vegas conditions.

    Very pleased to have you aboard!

  269. Hi Bac, Yes there is an edit feature. It’s not real obvious and they ran me through it. As soon as I’ve got it down pat myself I’ll tell you guys how to go about it.

    We also have a much simpler shoe posting feature whereby you can post played shoes. I’ll show you how that works as well. And this time we have it well protected. Anybody, whether computer literate or not, can post played shoes to ask questions or make comment. I will be using this feature a lot to SHOW you how each system works play by play.

    And for those who don’t know it yet, we have our own shortcut method of posting shoes: BBB PP B PP BB P BBBB PPPPP becomes simply B32122145. We work in columns of 20 plays as a quick check.

    Note that we don’t record ties at all. We leave them out altogether. Ties pay 8 to 1 vs an occurrence rate of 10 to 1 making ties about the worst bet in the casino. Let the herd make them. They don’t know any better, We DO!

    We’ve been adding features to the site daily since its inception and we will continue to do so until we have it fully professional.

    While we are at it, lets clear up another Baccarat misconception. Ha, God knows there are lots of them! You will continuously hear me and other mathematicians talk about 50/50 odds each play. Those are what we call the flip a coin odds.

    But we will be continuously showing you how to achieve better than 50/50 odds.

    For instance lets take a shoe that ends up 75% P and 25% B. What were your odds every time you bet P in that shoe? They certainly weren’t 50/50 were they.

    That particular shoe had what we call a strong Player bias. Other shoes have other biases. Another shoe might be high in 1’s and 2s while low in 3s and 4+s. That is another highly playable bias.

    Yet another shoe might end up with the mathematical normal number of 1’s and 2s and 3s and 4+s (4 or mores). We would call that a “random” bias. You’ve likely heard that random numbers can’t be beat. In fact, random biases are the easiest to beat.

    For instance, in BJ, the highest Basic Strategy “hit rate” and the highest “dealer break rate” is achieved in RANDOM cards. Random cards are the easiest to beat in both BJ and Bac.

    So next time you see a BJ card counter making his highest bet because the shoe has just achieved its highest + count, recognize that he’s making that bet precisely when the dealer is LEAST likely to break and Basic Strategy is least likely to win. How smart is that???

    Both Bac and BJ are full of “old wives tales”. As we go we’ll teach you how to separate fact from fiction – how to always keep the real odds in your favor.

    In Bac, the table odds already win you half the hands. From there, it is skill that gets you above 50%. We will show you how to always keep the odds in your favor.

    Then we will show you how cash mgt can insure that you always win more when you win that you lose when you lose. And that, my friends, is the object of the game.

  270. Hey, I COULD NOT find the ” edit” button to make sure all of my post was written in the King’s English…made a few typo’s…or maybe the ” recognition software” ( whatever it’s called) tried to interpret what I was saying…

    But I think you get it, and likely some member of this forum far smarter in matters of same can give you the low-down on how to ( in advance!) save yourself a whole lot of time and energy…



  271. ELLIS-

    ‘Bout to turn over a tip well worth the price of admission

    Reminder: I am not a Computer Geek, Programmer Extraordinaire…nor do I play one on TV

    1) make sure your site is really, really ready to handle “Keyword Search”…I am told you can even set up the keywords…

    like Money Management, Tote Board, Baccarat, Blackjack, Clumping, etc.etc.etc.etc.

    2) put in place a FAQ feature, so somebody asks a question ( which you have already answered a million times), you can just refer them to The FAQ page…where the answers are already…

    Hey, you can by now anticipate the top 10,20,30 FAQ’s…so you can begin now to construct the answers…

    Gambling example: look at Shaq (no, not basketball, Shakleford) site…I think you know what I mean!

    Save yourself hundreds, if not thousands of hours!!!

    3) and this is really important!

    Pretend The Last Word is like a car manual for a new car…think how ” indexed” the instruction manual is!!!

    You M.U.S.T. Do this to save yourself another couple 1,00 hours of a seri g people’s questions…

    They Ask…You Refer ( them) to index page, and FAQ answers…Bada Bing, Banda Boom…you are solving 85-95% of the ” problem” existing with years and years of commentary existing on a long term forum, where the same question has been asked thousands of times before, and somebody tried to answer it…and now no-one can find it!!!!! ( including you)

    4) get yourself a couple of new car manuals…have a look how they are structured/written…the appendix/index ( whatever you call it) is C.R.I.T.C.A.L….you’ll see…the Mercedes and up-and-coming-brands like Tesla, Hyundai, etc. go out of their way to include an ” introductory CD” telling people how to use the manual…

    WILL SAVE ECD thousands of man-hours !!


    Hey, E.- nobody said it would be EZ, but YOU CAN make it easier on yourself, if you spend just a little time up front…

    All the best,


  272. Greetings Ellis

    For my inaugural post, wanted to say thanks for the opportunity to meet you. Was great fun to share my limited knowledge of the LV landscape with you, and to chat about math, gaming strategies, and how to do battle with and hopefully counter the relentless enemy we call casino.

    I’m pleased to have connected with you at the beginning of your re-incarnation, and to now be a member of your new forum. I have updates on several LV casinos and their typical games you have alluded to recently. Will share these in upcoming posts shortly.

    BTW, I’m not yet sure that I have full membership status since some forum searches seem to prompt access denials. Please clarify and clue me in if I need to do something more.

    Thanks also for the dedication to completing your updated all-in-one resource for “everything baccarat”…..the game I now believe can be beaten by anyone who takes the time to think about it logically and approach systematically.

    I once believed this was true for BJ but eventually lost my faith due to the many underhanded tricks and orchestrated deceit the casinos impose on accomplished players everyday…I suppose I am in this sense born again strong, hence my name……black2bac.

    Best wishes to you and all fellow members!!!

  273. Here are some other ways they have cheated. In blackjack. You have a hard 12 and hit and receive a 9 for a total of 21. They scoop away your cards first and quckly and say too many cards then take your bet. If you are tired it works. Other ones you ask for a hit, the just quickly go to the next hand. Or, a round ends, she is to put the remaining cards left on the table in the discard rack then hers ontop of those. When it benefits her, clumping, she will take her cards and scoop backwards from first base. First base cards are still on the bottom in the discard rack and third base are the very top cards in that rack, but now hers are at the bottom underneath the first base players cards. Or when she scoops her cards, instead of from her right, she will do it from her left. If you see this happening, you can see how she is trying to put like cards together.

  274. Hi mcvince. The systems in the Final Word manual have proven to be the cream of the crop systems of everything I have ever created. The idea is to zero you in on the very best and avoid cluttering up your mind with anything else – to put everything you need to know in ONE fast place but nothing you DON’T need to know.

    I want to correct the problem I created at BTC where you need to wade throug thousands of pages to find the answer you are looking for and even then you probably won’t find it. At BTC I learned how NOT to do it.

    90% of the 4000 members at BTC still can’t even play NOR correctly. Most have no manual at all and those who do have an outdated manual. Vast improvements were made AFTER the manual was written. And those improvements are absolutely critical to consistent winning.

    I can’t even find this critical information myself there. How can I possibly expect the members to find what they need. And most of what they desperately need to know is no longer there.

    All of the game samples and play by plays were lost – thousands of man hours of work never to be seen again. Those were how players learn! In my view, that was the end of BTC. It was mortally wounded and is now dying a slow death. The so called management there thought nothing of losing all the game samples and play by plays. They were oblivious to the fact they had been mortally wounded.

    Proof of this fact is I received DAILY emails of losing games from many members there. Most were very easy games to beat. But they had no idea of which system to play or how to play it. They lost BECAUSE they had no sample games and play by plays to go by. I wasn’t about to start all this work over again when I was doing 99% of the work there W/O getting paid. ALL of my pay and then some went to the IRS because of the vastly inflated 1099 gross income numbers they saddled me with.

    So rather than trying to fix a total disaster there, which would have taken more than the rest of my life, I decided to start over on my own – to reteach NOR with full game samples and play by plays all in one easy to find place – how to play step by step backed up by complete game samples and play by plays covering everything that can happen in a shoe. And, of course, MDB+

    Sure, with the help of way2fast, BTC is doing a fair job of teahing my creation, MDB+, which I completely copyrighted 2 years ago. But MDB+ was created for new factory cards. And only a very small percentage of BTC members play new factory cards, The vast majority don’t go to Vegas to play. It’s far cheaper to play local casinos and to play on line which is REGULAR cards. MDB+ is close to useless against regular cards. They desperately need NOR but the instruction no longer exists. They deleted it – by accident or intention doesn’t really matter. It’s GONE.

    But I have learned a lot from my mistakes. Here EVERYTHING, all instruction will be based on a hard cover manual. Every member here will have a hard cover manual. Every question, every comment can refer back to the manual to a specific page and paragraph number. ALL instruction will be backed up by sample games and play by plays so players can actually SEE exactly what we are talking about each and every play. Plus, we will have training films of real time play wherein every play can be explained; wherein every rule is seen in action. It isn’t enough to know a rule. The trick is to understand the PURPOSE of each rule so you automatically play it correctly. That is what played game play by play instruction accomplishes best.

    Today everyone is a visual learner. Only a tiny minority can learn from the written word. Good or bad, it’s a fact of modern life. Therefore I won’t just tell you – I’ll show you. AND I’ll do it in an organized fashion.

    At BTC we had most of the members studying obsolete systems. They were doing this because they simply couldn’t find what they were supposed to be studying. Most of what they were supposed to be studying was no longer even there. It was a complete train wreck.

    Watch my lips: Obsolete systems are obsolete for good reason!

    1992 systems were great for 1992 games. Today they are worse than useless against today’s Baccarat games.

    Here we will stick to ONLY what you need to know TODAY. And that instruction will be totally organized and redily available at your finger tips – everthing you NEED to know totally detailed with sample games but nothing you DON’T need to know. Here you can learn in minutes what would take weeks of searching at BTC to no avail. I won’t be making that mistake again.

    I have no idea if BTC was actually hacked or if management simply made a careless mistake. Either way, they lost everything when they lost my sample games and play by plays. So just in case, I have been totally assurred here that we are as hack proof as modern technology can get us and our site is continuously monitored for hacking. I could not withstand going through that nightmare again.

    With it all to do over again, this time and this way I can actually abide by my motto: NOBODY gets left behind.

  275. Hmm, I have no idea why that double posted but our alert staff will fix it.

    I feel it’s only fair to remind you we have a price deadline coming up the 30TH of THIS month.

  276. Yes, of course MDB+ will be in the Final Word Manual for Factory cards. As simple as it is, it just might be my best work ever. With a casino confirmed 60% It certainly has the highest hit rate ever in the history of Baccarat. The MDB+ instruction will include the art of adjusting your delays to the situation at hand.

    But also for factory cards, the manual will include RSAP which gives MDB+ a run for the money.

    For regular cards, (most of the US except Vegas) the manual will contain a 5 system approach to NOR – time proven as the best possible way to play regular cards as well as NOR+ our highest units per shoe approach.

    It will contain the OR and SAP counts which defines the best system to play and the best mode to play it in.

    It will include the SAP system which is the safest way to play regular cards.

    As well as a Net Bet system to give beginners a good way to play while they are learning the more advanced systems.

    Perhaps most importantly, it will contain an overview of factory vs regular cards Baccarat and how we create a strong edge for ourselves in both games through statistical analysis in a 50/50 game + commission that the general public loses at the incredible rate of 15% or more.

    I call them “general public” because I can”t, in good conscience, call them Baccarat Players.

    The manual will also take you through casino canvasing and how to read tote boards to find the best tables in the casino.

    The concept is to create ONE source that covers every aspect of beating Baccarat consistently.

  277. Hi Ellis. In you last work the final word, what systems are in it and is IMDB included. Thanks

  278. Ok so now I know for sure that Dntn1202 is in fact Duke as I surmised. Yes Duke I can confirm your payment on 6/25/’15.

    With both S40 and OTB4L, I haven’t taught you yet how to go on runs.

    That will be fully detailed in your manual.

    But for now, when you lose your 1,2 against a run, bet 1 unit ON the run until you lose. Then go back to the system you were playing starting with a 1 bet.

    I’ll teach you a much better way in the manual.

    Recognize that with S40 we are only talking about Straight (ST) runs.

    But with OTB4L we are talking both ST and ZZ runs.

    One advantage of TB4L, (streaky shoes) when we get to it, is it is automatically ON both ST and ZZ runs. But not TT runs BB PP BB PP etc.

    Sorry about missing some emails but my computer was in the shop.

    Hmm, I see we have a spell check now. We can also post shoes. We also have post edit ability now. Won’t be long before we are in the big leagues.

  279. Hey ellis, i sent you a few e-mails and haven’t heard back, can you confirm receipt of my payment for The Final Word? Thanks in advance

  280. Hi Ellis and members, I have been winning playing S40 when I see 1s and 2s and OTB4L when I see 2s and 3s. I usually win 3 units after work weekdays playing 1 shoe at CA casinos then go home. But I kept losing once a week on these shoes. I see B12112111 so I jumped in then next come 343 so I lose 6 to 9 units betting S40 or I see B23322 so I jumped in betting OTB4L then next come 454 so I lose 6 to 9 units again. How do I avoid losing to these type of shoes? Thanks. Duke

  281. So OK, the point is I’ve given you long time members a good way to play Vegas even if you don’t know MDB+ yet.

    Just don’t try NOR against factory cards. ONLY play MDB+ against factory cards.

    But if you only know NOR, play South Point. It even looked like a very good place to stay. AND it has the lowest stakes I saw anywhere in Vegas.

    $10 Bac tables and plenty of them. Ideal for a 234 prog with $5 chips.

    But also ideal for black chips for accomplished NOR players.

    But the thing is, now, NOR players can play Vegas.

    Yeah, MDB+ created a millionaire in Vegas

    BUT the fact is NOR, with regular cards, and good NOR conditions

    can average more units per shoe than MDB+ – a lot more!

    Now, Duke, I’m not talking about you. I’ve only showed you parts of NOR, not the whole concept. But your Final Word Manual will prepare you for Vegas!

    I heard through the grapevine that Keith came out with a good film on MDB+.

    That’s good but what he doesn’t know is he only has a handful of players interested in playing Vegas. and MDB+ is strictly a Vegas system. I know, I designed it for Vegas and for factory cards.

    Meanwhile he’s ignoring hundreds of NOR players.

    And NOW, NOR players can play Vegas! And nobody can teach NOR like I can.I designed NOR as well.

    Your new Final Word manual will teach NOR from the standpoint of the OVERALL CONCEPT. That is what is totally lacking at BTC.

    I haven’t decided what to do about the fact that BTC is teaching, or trying to teach MY copyrights. Highly illegal. But I’m not so sure that is a bad thing.

    I’m thinking that the members at BTC will eventually see my forum “CFC” as a forum to graduate to for advanced training.

    If Keith is smart about it, once he gets over his tantrum, which may take a while, he’ll see that a harmonious relationship is in everybody’s best interest – especially the members of both forums.

    So see, the whole point of my trip was to confirm good places to play MDB+
    BUT maybe more important for the vast majority of members –
    confirm a great place to play NOR.

    Yes, MDB+ is the highest hit rate system of all time and I’m proud of that fact,

    BUT, nevertheless, the FACT is, NOR makes more money! And I should know.

    BTW, my new Administration here at CFC is highly experienced in PROFESSIONAL film making.

    We will be doing lots of films and not just Marketing films –

    but especially detailed training films to supplement our manuals.

    It is so much easier to learn when you can WATCH a system being played.

    And you BJ players – all of the BTC BJ manuals are mine and we will soon have them available here. BTC’s BJ Instructor is now with us.

    Look, Im not going to criticize BTC. I would simply be criticizing my former self.

  282. Right Ed, your copy will be normal black lettering against a white background. Just make a copy and put on your word processor or Email it to yourself. If you don’t know how to do this just call me and I’ll show you.

  283. Thanks Ellis, can’t wait to learn MDB when I get your final book, would love to catch you next time in vegas. Been playing NOR at CA casinos and win more than lose. I usually leave when up 3 units, still need to learn when to jump in and what system to play.

  284. That was FAST … ! Thank You . Everything is working now …
    No Need to reply ..

    Sorry I was getting so antsy . Very prompt reply’s . And Thank You for answering so quickly and letting me know …

  285. Hi Ed
    A simple work around to your dilemma is to simply just copy & paste the text you want to print onto a blank word document and just simply print it from there.

    That way you can even edit it to suit your needs.

    Hope this answers your concerns,


  286. Your comments on the black background look fine. My problem is making a copy for my notes. The black background soaks too much Ink when you make copies. Black letters on a white background do not soak as much ink as the a black back ground. i rather put my money in my bank roll than in ink cartridges.

  287. Relax Mike! I have your 7/1/2015 purchase recorded as well as your mailing address. Administration hasn’t been in any hurry to update the upgrades since we haven’t started the private forum yet. We’ve been busy with other new forum start up and building issues. I just checked to be sure. The private forum is completely blank. The Final Word Manual will start it off.
    BTW, you were our very first private forum member. And thanks for that. THANKS-A-Million

  288. I am concerned about my membership status. I have sent a message to the administrator with all necessary information and an update on my check being cashed on July 8- th . Before you left for Vegas. Still have not received a reply.
    And I still cannot log into the Baccarat Private Forum . It states I must make a purchase.
    Any help on this would be Great .
    Thanks Mike S. aka Maxamilion

  289. Hi guys! Sorry, I answered this thread in detail the day I got back but I lost the whole thing because of an administrative log in problem. Even the computer experts could not get my post back. This time I’ll make a copy just in case…

    First, I’ll answer your comments. I’ll take Don’s last because I’ve got some good comments to make about Don’s observations.

    Hi McVince! Yes, God willing, I’ll have the new manual well in time for your trip. Nevertheless, call me just before you leave. I have good spies in Vegas and I can give you the latest info at that time.

    Sorry Duke, I’ll fit you in next time. This was supposed to be a family outting and I already had separate meetings set up with 3 of our Vegas members.

    And a shout out to John, Rich, xingbnso, and TheOne. These guys have all been with me a LONG time and are excellent sources of information.

    Down to business:

    I played the Rio, the Gold Coast, South Point and Caesars high stakes.

    First the Rio:

    Don Chiasson, hmm, a junior member, called it exactly right!

    The Rio is strictly factory cards and therefore strictly an MDB+ casino. But, they only had one table going and couldn’t keep it full. Unlike most Vegas casinos they wouldn’t let me sit out the hands necessary for MDB+.

    I was only playing the Rio because I was staying at the Rio with Art who is a night owl while I am an early bird. It was just something to do while Art slept.

    Nevertheless, I should have made the walk over to Gold Coast, which I did every other day.

    While the Rio is a great place to stay due to their great rooms, I simply can’t recommend it for any kind of play either BJ or Bac. I played low stakes NOR there (a mistake) and got to +17 several times only to slip back to 10 trying to get to +20. But even worse, I had a lot of -6s, my stop loss. Overall, a real bummer! and a waste of time.

    Their BJ tables are notoriously BAD. If you want to play BJ in Vegas, GO Downtown! That is the best BJ anywhere. I haven’t had a losing BJ day in downtown Vegas in 30 years. There are plenty of traditional hand shuffled BJ games there that play just like the early ’90s.Perfect for NBJ. While all the tables are good, I particularly recommend 2 deck tables. They don’t clump up and are perfect for 3rd base NBJ.

    Hmm, the walk over to Gold Coast seems a lot longer today than it was back in my day. But well worth it:

    The Gold Coast might well be the best MDB+ casino in Vegas!

    IF you know how to play the Gold Coast:

    DON’T take a seat!

    They have a LOT of tables but the players won’t stay put. Everytime you get a couple one in a rows everybody leaves the table en mass.

    Do the same thing everybody else does there. Roam the tables studying the tote boards with chips in your pocket. But they are looking for runs. YOU are watching for MDB+ bets coming up. You get plenty of warning. And plenty of bets – way more than you could ever get sitting down!

    When you see an MDB bet, bet it on any empty spot. If there are no empty spots, back bet over someone’s shoulder – just be sure to ask permission. But they will all let you do that because they all back bet too.

    The Gold Coast is a gold mine for any MDB+ player! But MDB+ ONLY!

    Just follow my instruction!

    Caesars: This is one of the best high stakes rooms in Vegas – very well run.
    No roaming here! Everybody stays put and you can sit out as many hands as you want without so much as a raised eyebrow. The perfect sit down MDB+ situation. We played their main 14 player table for hours every day at $200 units. We won every shoe except for ONE -4 shoe. That shoe, we should have increased our delays on 2s. But all the rest won using my origional rules – several +12 shoes! THIS is my kind of Baccarat – sit down, relax. You’re in good company from BOTH sides of the table. I don’t walk so good any more so this was perfect for me.

    The old time pit managers there know me and were very interested in how we could win every shoe while everyone else was losing. So, I told them:
    “We’re just lucky!” Yeah, right!

    I saved South Point for last:

    I had never even heard of this casino but one of our members picked me up at Caesars “to take me to a NOR casino!” Just a short drive.

    Incredible! REGULAR CARDS! and every tote – all seven, were near perfect NOR tote boards – one system or another. We hit +10 in 18 plays at one table while watching the tote board at the next table! 9 Banks followed by 8 Players, followed by a ZZ run of 7 that was still going when we left. TB4L wins nearly every bet. You only get to your 2 net twice.

    But even at our own table, we never got past our 2 bet. You couldn’t ask for a better NOR casino. We hit it at 7PM Wednesday night.

    So right, Vegas is an MDB+ town. BUT, if you only know NOR, I couldn’t recommend South Point more! It’s tops for NOR in my book!

    So, you new guys, this is all a bit Greek to you right now. No worries, we ALL started out that way. We’ll have you in full swing in no time!

    You too, Duke!

  290. Oh, yeah, just one more to look out for:

    The Atlantic City color up trick!

    Even after I watched this a couple times I still couldn’t grasp exactly how it worked. It’s sorta like the shell game. You lose $100 every time.

    So you’re finished playing and you give the dealer several piles of black. He reforms them into his own known piles and separates the left overs. Then he matches your piles with his piles but does a lot of moving the piles.

    I don’t know who the hell they do it but you end up $100 short every time.

    Always know how much you are giving the dealer and only give him an even amount. Keep your own excesses. And TELL the dealer how much you are giving him.

    I’m embarrased to say I don’t know how they do it. But it has cost me over a thousand dollars before I wised up.

  291. I didn’t say much about slight of hand cheating in Baccarat because there isn’t much.

    Just a couple things:

    There was this dealer at Turning Stone:

    Again if you don’t want me to name your casino, it’s simple – don’t cheat.

    Anyway the rules say: a card to Player, a card to Bank, a card to Player, a card to Bank.

    I won’t mention his name but “to speed things up” this dealer didn’t do that.

    He pulled the cards normally with his left hand. But instead of them going straight to the table, they went into his right hand. Then he “snatched two cards with his left hand and they went to the Player. The other two, of course, went to Bank.

    Yep, it sounds innocent enough – even looks innocent.

    But here’s the thing. You couldn’t tell which two cards he snatched.

    All you knew is if you were the high bettor, you lost – every single time.

    So, do you report this dealer?

    Hell no! Just DON’T be the high bettor! And always bet AGAINST the high bettor. You win every hand!

    Foxwood high stakes Bac 14 player table. Watch out for the Breakdown trick! It’s smoothe as silk. So there’s a Bank run! Everybody is on it betting higher and higher. There’s a lot of money on the table! So the hand it over but not yet paid because the deaker is figuring the commissions back at third base – position 14. Nobody is paying attention because the hand is finished. They are all jibber jabbing about their next bet while waiting to get paid. The pit boss yells “break down those bets”. Sounds innocent enough. Looks innocent enough. Whereupon a crew member will break down everybody’s bet into two piles.

    Think about that. There is no good reason to do that except to cheat.
    So players look up from their score cards, see two piles and think they got paid and pull in their “winnings”. They rarely get caught but if they do:

    “It’s your fault! You pulled down your bet before we paid you.” The perfect scam. So did I report them? To whom? The Indians? I was winning thousands there. I didn’t want to get myself barred – or worse.

    Just always know how much you bet and NEVER pull down your bet before you get paid – even if you DO see two piles. Smoothest scam I ever saw – again and again. Even my good friend Aegis (John) fell for it when I wasn’t watching but SHOULD have been. We bet the same every hand but at the end of the night he had $400 less than me. I didn’t think to warn him about the breakdown trick. I’ll never make that mistake again!

    While we are at it:

    There is no way to cheat in BJ.

    But Bac, well you just can’t say that….

    7 player full commission table late night. Everybody, especially the dealer, is a little tired. You’re at first base – the first position at the extreme left of the dealer. You bet a black on Player but Bank wins. The dealer immediately takes your black chip. Then she’s doing the third base commission at the extreme other end of the table. So you put up your next bet – a black on Bank,- Ha, don’t get greedy. She’s busy with commissions around the table but finally gets to you – and pays you off!. Perfect! If she DOES catch you she’ll merely push your chip back and wag her finger at you. If that happens, don’t try it again. But if she pays you off, you can keep doing it on Bank wins all night. You’ll probably end up staying up a little later than you had planned. Just sit there and bet on player. If Player wins you win. But if Bank wins – you don’t lose. Might cost you a little sleep! Oh, and don’t forget to tip!

    Do that a few times and you paid for your manual already.

    Ha, just don’t tell them that Ellis sent you. Of course I would never do such a thing. Of course not! Hmm.

  292. Nobody knows casino cheating like I do. I’ve been using their own cheating against them for more than 30 years. THAT is what I’m teaching YOU to do.

    Look, casino cheating is not a bad thing. Not for us. We WANT them to cheat because THAT is how they expose their weaknesses. ALL of the systems I have designed and teach you are based on known casino cheating.

    Since most of you are here for Baccarat, let’s take BJ first since that is where I was first exposed to rampant casino cheating. I’ll be quick about it. I got barred everywhere because I learned how to use their own cheating against them.

    I can guarantee you if you ever played BJ, you were cheated. I’m not talking about the many slight of hand tricks like dealing seconds at Palace Station, the Bahama hole card trick at Caesars – just one of many, Short decking, rampant all over Minnesota, slipping the 5 in Atlantic City, and I could go on all day. Those you need to be alert to – or else.

    I’m not talking about that kind of cheating…

    I’m talking about REAL cheating – fixing the cards. Yep, both games!

    Ha, I counted sixes out loud – VERY loud – one Saturday night in a SIX deck MN game. I got nearly the whole casino counting along with me. I emphasized 24 because we already got to it half way through the shoe. We got to 35 before the cut off card! Do the math! No, they didn’t throw me out. They couldn’t because the whole casino was watching to see what they would do. They closed the whole pit on a Saturday night – cost them a fortune. It hit the newspapers the next day. I singlehandedly cured MN of short decking hopefully forever. You can’t get away with that with me. I’ll know! And I will make them pay dearly!

    I learned the Bahama hole card trick in the Bahamas. I caught them red handed at Caesars Vegas. Hey, if you don’t want me to name your casino – that’s simple, don’t cheat!

    The rules are that the dealer’s FIRST card is ALWAYS her up card and her second card is ALWAYS her down card. Not so at that pit that day at Caesars. The dealer was turning up her HIGHEST card! That increases the odds againt you 14%. You have no chance at all. You find yourself hitting against a dealer ten up far, far more often than 4 out of 13.

    Ever seen way too many dealer 10 ups? Now, you know why.

    So I stopped the game – full table of MY people – and called in the pit boss.

    Who said: “I teach ALL my dealers to do that!” “Get the Casino Mgr out here!” – which he promptly did. Who said: “You can’t do that – it’s blatant cheating! Give them all their money back!” I’m thinking great but what about the rest of the pit??? Dumb bastards! Yep, Caesars Vegas! If you can’t trust them you can’t trust anybody. But if you try that crap on ME, I’ll catch you!

    But, I’m not talking about the slight of hand tricks in BJ. I’m talking about their biggest cheat – fixing the cards by picking up the break cards first!

    Picture a 7 player game – not that I ever play those. I never play with more than 4 players. But it’s easiest to see in a 7 player game.

    So the round is finished. Let’s say 4 players break and 4, including the dealer, don’t. The dealer picks up ALL the break cards FIRST and puts them in the discard rack! Think about that! THAT continuously rigs the game more and more each hand. Do you get it yet?

    LOOK!, break cards are mostly low! Non break cards are mostly high! The dealer is continuously fixing the cards in the discard rack into clumps of mostly low followed by clumps of mostly high.

    But Ellis, they shuffle the cards!

    Ha, not really. They give the cards a cursory shuffle designed to increase clumping – not dissolve it. The rules state that every card must be shuffled twice! But who wrote the rules? The casinos did! They know that it takes a minimum of 7 shuffles to randomize a single deck. 8 decks takes 7 to the 8th power! The dealer will be shuffling for a week! So much for the shuffle – it might as well not even exist.

    In a mature game Lows SHOULD follow lows and highs SHOULD follow highs HALF the time. Basic Strategy absolutely DEPENDS on that! But that isn’t what happens! Is it/!/! Count them yourself! It’s easy.

    Count 2-7 as low. 8-K as high. Aces swing. Count them hi when they follow a high and low when they follow a low.

    Your count SHOULD be 0. Not even close!

    In a Saturday night 8 deck game your count can go into the 30s real easy.

    Card counters think a +30 is a great game. They’ll be making huge bets! AND they will LOSE nearly every one! Dumb bastards!

    Why? Because they play perfect Basic Strategy and clumping completely destroys Basic. Edward O Thorp missed the boat on that one.

    His player Kenny Uston kept coming back to him and saying: “But Ed, I DON’T have a 6% advantage – I don’t have ANY advantage! Kenny was right! Thorp was wrong! Blasphemy! NO, And I’ll say the same thing to Thorp right to his face. He always wondered what happened to his 6%. The casinos took it! How? Clumping Highs vs Lows, right under his freaking nose – and yours too. Thorp is a GREAT Mathematician. But it’s not about math. It’s about rigging the game. Thorp never thought of that! But I did and I won. Kenny lost his shirt. I know, I played with him in Atlantic city enough times to know. Kenny ended up quitting BJ. He wouldn’t listen to me. “Perfect Basic Strategy LOSES perfectly.”

    So OK, some of you guys know me and know that I speak the exact truth.

    But some of you don’t and think I speak blasphemy!

    Don’t take my word for it. It is easy to prove to yourself.

    At home, take a deck of cards and put 2-7 on the bottom and 8 -K on the top. Put the aces anywhere.

    Now deal yourself a game – just you and the dealer.

    The first thing you’ll notice is the dealer virtually NEVER breaks let alone 28%.

    Play perfect Basic Strategy!

    You might win 20% of the hands – maybe not even that.

    Why do I keep saying Saturday night? Because that is when the cards get maximum play with a maximum number of players

    In other words – Maximum Clumping and Minimum dealer breaks.

    Perfect Basic Strategy loses perfectly! Shoe after freaking shoe.

    Did you ever play perfect BS in a 6 deck game on a Sat night and only win 20% of the hands???

    Well, now you know why! YOU wern’t the only one!

    How long have the casinos been using clumping to beat you? About 30 years. Do you get it now? And you thought you were just unlucky while the dealer’s luck was impossibly extreme. It is not about luck. It is not even about math. It is about rigging the game against ALL Basic Strategy players.

    End of the game? No, not by a long shot.

    Watch my lips!

    If the cards are not random – what ARE they???

    What is the opposite of random???

    Predictable !

    Look, highs are following highs and lows are following lows way way too often! THAT is the real world fact we face.

    Don’t fall victim to that situation. USE IT!

    I’ll teach you in detail later. But I can give you a little taste right now.

    Forget Basic. It loses for sure.

    Forget the dealer’s up card! It’s only HALF her freaking hand.

    TRACK the dealer break rate! It is a perfect measurement of clumping.

    Whenever you stand with less than 17, you are, in fact, betting the dealer will break. See that?

    That’s fine if the dealer is breaking 28%. That is how Basic Strategy is designed.

    But what if the dealer is only breaking 5%???

    Why in hell would you sit there betting the dealer will break???

    The cards don’t know who’s dealing!

    If the dealer can’t break – neither can you! Hit your freaking hand.

    It is virtually impossible for either of you to break in a low card clump.

    And in a high card clump, neither of you will have to hit at all. Do the math!

    Are you starting to get it?

    Well hell, we haven’t even got started.

    I play and teach real world Blackjack – not some fictitious computer game.

    Is the dealer’s hole card high or low? What if you just knew that?

    Think that might help?

    Does the dealer have a ten under that Ace?

    What if you knew that with 90+% accuracy? It pays 2 to 1 you know.

    You get a first card ten! Your chances of winning the hand just went to 74%

    Think it might help to KNOW with 90+ accuracy WHEN you are going to get a first card ten even before the first card of the hand is dealt??? Think you might bet a little more?

    Or what if you knew you are most likely to get a low first card? Think you might bet a little less?

    I’m just scratching the surfacev here. Just giving you a little peek.

    I’m trying to give you just a hint of what you are in for.

    Baccarat? It is just as rigged as BJ. I’ll teach you how to use their own rigging against them. THAT is WHY I got barred!

    No worries. I’ll teach you how to avoid getting barred. I learned the hard way.

    If you follow me, I’ll lead you into a whole new world of gambling – the REAL world.

    Many here already know that – just ask them.

    But you new guys – you’re in for a huge awakening.

    Both games! As I teach you, light bulbs will start turning on for you.

    I’ve created 3 millionaires so far. That’s not nearly enough. I want more!

    That’s what I do! And it is a very rewarding life.

    I’d like you to be a part of it.

    Yeah, yeah, I know. My manuals cost a little money. Big whip!

    Not nearly as much as you’ll lose W/O my help.

    There are ways to beat BOTH games. I did it for 30 years. A lot of guys right here are doing it right now. So can you.

    Yep, casinos cheat. But that’s how we beat them!

  293. The casinos will always do what is in their best interest, their bottom line profit when a player is winning big money only.

  294. Hi Ellis,
    Sure hope you have goog news from your trip. I watched you play a shoe at the Rio Monday night. Obviously the shoe was not a good shoe. Would it have been a shoe that maybe IMDB would have been the way to play? I would have introduced myself as I am a junior member of btc. Thanks

  295. Hope you did well Ellis. I am trying to contact you regarding the new manual. I am planning a Las Vegas trip in October. Will the new manual be out before then? Will the new thing that you have been promoting been thoroughly vetted and tested?

  296. Hi Ellis, can I come to vegas to hang out with you? I can in Vegas Saturday and leave Tuesday, just want to meet you and play with you for 1 day.
    Thanks, duke